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Transcript: Digital Production Buzz – March 26, 2015

Digital Production Buzz

March 26, 2015

[Transcripts provided by Take 1 Transcription]


(Click here to listen to this show.)


Larry Jordan

Michael Horton


Greg Boren, Product Marketing Engineer, Marshall Electronics

Jim Tierney, President & Chief Executive Anarchist, Digital Anarchy

Jessica Sitomer, President, The Greenlight Coach

Nicholas Pisarro, President, NP Associates, LLC


Voiceover: The Digital Production Buzz is brought to you by, a global marketplace for royalty free images and videos. With over two million royalty free HD and 4K video clips, Shutterstock helps you take your creative projects to the next level; and by Other World Computing, providing quality hardware solutions and extensive technical support to the worldwide computer industry since 1988.

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Voiceover: From the media capital of the world in Los Angeles, California, The Digital Production Buzz goes live now.

Larry Jordan: And welcome to The Digital Production Buzz, the world’s longest running podcast for creative content producers covering media production, post production, marketing and distribution around the world. Hi, my name is Larry Jordan and joining us is our co-host, the ever well rested Mr. Mike Horton.

Mike Horton: I am well rested.

Larry Jordan: You look just…

Mike Horton: Rested. What was that word that you were trying to come up with?

Larry Jordan: Yes, it wasn’t rested, but it’s a good place to start.

Mike Horton: So do you, and it’s a nice shirt you have on too.

Larry Jordan: Well, today was a blue show. You’ve got a blue shirt on.

Mike Horton: Last week it was orange.

Larry Jordan: Mhmm. We’re probably going to go with plum next week.

Mike Horton: Are we?

Larry Jordan: Yes, we cycle through colors.

Mike Horton: We should do themes.

Larry Jordan: We have a color chart that allows us…

Mike Horton: We need a stylist, you and I, let’s face it.

Larry Jordan: And a makeup trowel.

Mike Horton: And a makeup trowel, yes.

Larry Jordan: We’ve got a jam packed show this week. We’re going to start with Greg Boren. He’s a Product Marketing Engineering at Marshall Electronics. He’s also President of the Society of Television Engineers and a member of SMPTE and the Digital Cinema Society. He joins us in the studio this week to show off some of Marshall’s smallest cameras and monitors.

Larry Jordan: Jessica Sitomer is the President of The Greenlight Coach. She’s also a regular on The Buzz, but what we like best about Jessica is that she’s really good at providing really helpful career advice.

Mike Horton: She is very good.

Larry Jordan: This week, we ask her, “Are you busy doing work or just busy being busy?”

Mike Horton: Hmm. Do we have to answer that?

Larry Jordan: No you don’t. We’re going to have Jessica answer. Next is Nicholas Pisarro Junior. He’s been a software developer for over 40 years. He’s also been working with Final Cut since version one. Recently, he updated his product for Final Cut Pro 10 called Backups for Final Cut Pro that makes backups easy. Tonight, Nick joins us to explain how it works.

Larry Jordan: And finally, Jim Tierney, the Chief Anarchist at Digital Anarchy joins us. Jim’s company publishes Beauty Box, a digital retouching plug-in for a variety of software. He just recently updated the software, so this week we talk about why not, how much…

Mike Horton: Try that again, Larry. Or I could do it, if I had a script in front of me.

Larry Jordan: Yes, well, we wouldn’t give you a script because you can’t do it as well as I can. We’re going to talk about how much retouching is too much.

Larry Jordan: And just a reminder that we’re offering text transcripts for each show, courtesy of Take 1 Transcription. Now you can quickly scan or print the contents of each show, as well as listen to it. Transcripts are located on each show page. Learn more at and thanks, Take 1, for making it possible

Larry Jordan: Mike, it may come as a surprise to you, but in two weeks The Buzz is going to the NAB show in Las Vegas and we’re…

Mike Horton: Finally you’re announcing it.

Larry Jordan: 15 hours of live coverage.

Mike Horton: Each day.

Larry Jordan: We’re going to do three live shows every day, plus an hour show at night. We’re going to have over 80 guests in less than three and a half days.

Mike Horton: Am I going to be one of those guests?

Larry Jordan: We have invited you, but your publicist says that you cannot attend unless we provide you a gold lame van to pick you up.

Mike Horton: I promise to wear a clean shirt.

Larry Jordan: We would be grateful.

Mike Horton: No, really, you’re booked up with everybody, right?

Larry Jordan: We’ve booked up everybody. It’s amazing. We’ve got every major vendor that’s NAB is going to be on the show and…

Mike Horton: And you’re going to be at the South Hall, the same place?

Larry Jordan: Lower Hall, 11505.

Mike Horton: Which is pretty much the same place as you were last year.

Larry Jordan: Starts at ten o’clock on Monday morning. You can learn more at and join us for Greg Boren, right after this.

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Larry Jordan: Greg Boren is the Product Marketing Engineer at Marshall Electronics. He came to Marshall after 22 years with Panasonic Broadcast Systems Company and before that he was with NBC Burbank, where he was the Technical Manager on The Tonight Show. Greg is also the President of the Society of Television Engineers and a member of SMPTE. Good to have you with us, Greg, welcome.

Greg Boren: Thanks.

Larry Jordan: So how would you describe Marshall Electronics?

Greg Boren: Ah, it’s an interesting company. It’s one of the few manufacturers still in the US that builds at least part of our products domestically. It’s a really interesting company, about 100 employees, privately owned by Leonard Marshall, the name comes from him.

Larry Jordan: And you’re based where?

Greg Boren: Oh, we’re located not too far from LAX, El Segundo, and there are some really good fish tacos in the area.

Larry Jordan: Hang on one second. Mike, could you just point his mic toward him a little bit more? Swing the mic. There we go. So you’re based in El Segundo…

Mike Horton: Do you make microphones, by the way?

Greg Boren: We do make microphones. These aren’t them. Yes, we make a rather big line of microphones under the MXL brand.

Mike Horton: Do you happen to make eight foot tables?

Greg Boren: It would be nice, wouldn’t it? Because I’ve brought a lot of junk here.

Larry Jordan: Well, Marshall has evolved a lot as a company over the years.

Greg Boren: It has.

Larry Jordan: What is it doing now?

Greg Boren: It really did start in the audio side of the business, audio and audio cabling back in the analogue days, Mogami cable, which is what people used a lot for the audio consoles and so on, and then somewhere along the way prior to me being there, they came up with the first rack mounted panels with small monitors in them and that was such a hit that that’s what people know Marshall for today.

Larry Jordan: Absolutely, those rack mounted monitors are everywhere.

Greg Boren: Absolutely. We have probably 75 different models of those and also camera top monitors.

Mike Horton: Really? You have 75 different models?

Greg Boren: Oh, we have a lot of models, yes. Enormous number of models, some with quad split, some with waveform vectorscopes in them, things like that.

Larry Jordan: Is it the same screen, just different inputs?

Greg Boren: Oh no. They’re very different. Each one’s a little bit different and that’s one of the things… we also have modular inputs where, “Oh, I need this kind of connection. Oh, I’ll just put a different module on the back.” A lot of them are in remote production trucks, a variety of things.

Larry Jordan: Well, the thing I like about it is they don’t take a lot of space. They’re flat and they squeeze up against a wall.

Greg Boren: They’re flat and you put a lot in one panel and so on. There’s a big range of those. That’s what we’re known for, but more recently we have been getting into a lot of other things. We make encoders for streaming, like this show. We can stream live on the web and we’ve done that with our encoders. We have cameras, which we’re going to talk about today, and more monitors especially at NAB – who goes to NAB? You guys go to NAB, I assume?

Larry Jordan: We are going to NAB.

Mike Horton: He’s going to be there.

Greg Boren: Oh, beautiful.

Mike Horton: On the show floor, next to the Marshall booth.

Greg Boren: Yes, we’re in Central Hall, by the way, that’s a plug.

Larry Jordan: Oh good.

Greg Boren: Central Hall, halfway down on the main aisle. I’ve done 35 NABs, I think it is, something like that.

Larry Jordan: I know, you lose count after a while.

Greg Boren: Yes, there’s been a lot of them. But anyhow, the National Association of Broadcasters show, for those who may not know what NAB stands for, we’ll be there and we have something that doesn’t sound real sexy. We make these adapters and they’re really coming on fast. We have a range of things. We’re kind of ahead of the curve on this.

Larry Jordan: Wait, wait, wait, what kind of adapters?

Greg Boren: Well, they’ll take the new 12G serial signal, which is for 4K, convert that to optical and back. We do a variety of things and there’s a bunch more coming out. We have a little Skunk Works sort of thing going on there.

Larry Jordan: Much as I’d love to think about 12G converted to 4K and I have a need for at least 25 or 30,000 of these things…

Greg Boren: I’m sure you do.

Mike Horton: Me too.

Larry Jordan: …most of us would prefer to talk about something a bit more interesting.

Greg Boren: Yes, that’s right.

Larry Jordan: I notice that you’ve got some friends sitting here on the table.

Greg Boren: Yes, these are fun.

Larry Jordan: What are these?

Greg Boren: Well, these are very small cameras and what you’re looking at in the middle of the table are two larger cameras. This one here…

Larry Jordan: Oh, just leave it there because otherwise we’re going to have a really hard time taking a close-up of it.

Greg Boren: Oh, that’s right because you’ve probably zoomed in on it. Well, all of these that I’m going to show you are 1920 by 1080, in other words full HD cameras.

Larry Jordan: Progressive?

Greg Boren: Either way, they’re selectable – progressive scan or interlace.

Larry Jordan: Frame rate?

Greg Boren: Some of them are set up more for round numbers. If you’re into the tech numbers like 59.94 and those things, some are set up for 60, some are set up for 59.94, which means they work in the US market broadcast. If you’re just streaming, those numbers don’t mean anything, everybody can watch anything on their computer.

Greg Boren: When it comes to working with professional broadcast equipment, you have to have exactly the right frame rates and things to do that. This one here, though, is interesting in that this exact model and this arrangement with a very nice Fujinon lens on the front, this is used on the Ellen show. They have a whole bunch of these scattered all around the stage and they move them around, so if they want to get somebody walking down the hall or going into the dressing room or something like that, they throw one of these up.

Larry Jordan: Can we still get good pictures from something that tiny?

Greg Boren: Oh, sure. It’s wonderful. Yes, they’re very good.

Larry Jordan: What’s the ISO?

Greg Boren: Well, that’s a number we haven’t even calculated. That’s a very good number, probably in the 300, 400 range.

Larry Jordan: Not too bad.

Greg Boren: Not bad. These actually have night vision modes in most of them, so that pulls a lot of tricks to do that. You’ll bring the grain up a little bit, you might even go black and white, but we can work on very, very low light levels with these if you don’t mind compromising something else.

Larry Jordan: So I’m just thinking of our studio here, we’re an all HD STI studio, so I can take HD STI coming out the back of this and just plug it into the switcher?

Greg Boren: You sure could.

Larry Jordan: So what about the camera to my side of it, the left of it? This one right there.

Greg Boren: Ok, this one here, well, this one’s one of the few cameras that we have…

Larry Jordan: You just do that to make our camera guy nuts, don’t you?

Greg Boren: Sorry, let me rotate it. I’m throwing him for a curve.

Mike Horton: You want to see the back of this.

Greg Boren: The back of it also has HDMI and SDI.

Larry Jordan: Ah!

Greg Boren: So that’s one of the few dual purpose cameras we have.

Larry Jordan: Now, we’re getting a question on our live chat, so I want to ask this.

Greg Boren: Oh, great.

Larry Jordan: We have to buy the frame rate when we buy the cameras? Or what adjustability do we have here?

Greg Boren: It depends on the model. Some of ours will do all different frame rates. If you’re going to use broadcast formats in the US, you would want to make sure you’ve got the Marshall Broadcast model. If you’re only going to stream or use it for some kind of surveillance purpose or something like that, then you’d get the other one – it might be a little cheaper.

Larry Jordan: Price range for both of these?

Greg Boren: Let me look at my cheat sheet here, because I always forget these things. Actually, everything I have on the table here is pretty much a $500 camera, which is pretty remarkable.

Larry Jordan: Now, just a second here. $500?

Mike Horton: HD SDI, $500.

Greg Boren: That’s 600.

Larry Jordan: Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m looking at these cameras and the very first thought that comes into my head is, “This looks like and is priced very similar to a GoPro.” What makes this different from a GoPro?

Greg Boren: All right, well, we are different and…

Larry Jordan: Doesn’t have GoPro on the side for one thing.

Greg Boren: No, we’re not really in competition with GoPro. As a matter of fact, we’ve partnered with them on various stages and things. What we have different, GoPro has an HDMI connection only. HDMI is typically rated to go about 15 feet, so to go further you’d need to go to a converter and send it out. HD SDI, that’s the term used, serial digital interface – I’m sorry, I’m turning the camera around while they’re working – the connection on the back is a serial digital interface that goes 300 feet all by itself…

Larry Jordan: So we can get a bigger run.

Greg Boren: …so on one cable I can do 300 feet. We also have interchangeable lenses on all of these cameras, which GoPro doesn’t have. GoPro are great if I’m going to jump off a mountain or climb or do all those crazy things that people do with GoPros, perfect camera for that. Our cameras don’t record, GoPros record. Those are some of the…

Larry Jordan: So you’re just feeding a signal, there’s no chip inside?

Greg Boren: There’s no recorder in any of these cameras. This is designed to go to a switcher or a microwave transmitter or someone else’s recorder.

Mike Horton: Interchangeable lenses – are you making your lenses also? Or is somebody else?

Greg Boren: We make some of these. The real small lenses we make and we have special purchases on some of these others. This is a Fujinon lens here that we don’t make. This one here we sell directly and then, if I can get to these smaller cameras here, these are…

Larry Jordan: Absolutely, go ahead. We’re on a close-up right now, so just…

Greg Boren: All right. Let me pull it up slowly here, so as not to lose it, if you can follow that. This camera here is easily the most popular camera we have, the CV500.

Larry Jordan: Turn it sideways. There you go.

Greg Boren: Tiny, tiny lens in the front, SDI connection in the back, 12 volt power. This is also a composite output, which is the old standard definition type connection, so you could run that to some garden variety local monitor if you wanted to and see a picture at the same time. These lenses are changeable, there’s even a little miniature joystick in the back here to run the menus.

Mike Horton: Really? I haven’t seen that.

Greg Boren: See it back there? Yes, see that?

Mike Horton: Oh my gosh.

Greg Boren: On-screen menus come up and you can change formats and these will do everything from 1080p 24 up to 1080p 60 and everything in between.

Mike Horton: Holy cow.

Greg Boren: I can set them for European formats, which are also very popular in Europe.

Mike Horton: Give me an example of what people are using this particular camera for.

Greg Boren: This camera goes into reality shows; Formula 1’s using these.

Larry Jordan: Now, I saw an interesting video on YouTube where a car on a…

Mike Horton: Oh, in that rally?

Larry Jordan: Did you get the clip?

Mike Horton: Oh yes, we got the clip, yes.

Larry Jordan: Rolled over, like, six times and we’re watching it from inside, from two different angles as the car spins.

Greg Boren: Is that not amazing? That was with these.

Mike Horton: Really?

Larry Jordan: Are you serious? And it survived the crash.

Greg Boren: For sure. You could drive a nail at this camera.

Larry Jordan: I would probably not want to do that.

Greg Boren: No, but you could. Here, feel the…

Larry Jordan: Look at that. Oh my goodness, that’s… 

Greg Boren: It’s pretty solid.

Larry Jordan: It feels like it’s a metal case.

Greg Boren: It’s not a joke. Yes.

Mike Horton: And it has interchangeable lenses.

Larry Jordan: This would go with my Barbie doll set.

Mike Horton: What lens do we have on this right now?

Greg Boren: If it’s the standard lens, it’s 3.7 millimeters, which doesn’t mean anything because it’s a one-third inch imager. I did a little calculation before I came here and, compared to a DSLR lens, which people are familiar with, these look like a 25 millimeter DSLR lens, somewhere in that range.

Mike Horton: So it’s a somewhat wide angle.

Greg Boren: There’d be a wide angle. We go wider. We have a range of, I think, a dozen lenses for this camera. The widest is about a 90 degree field of view, so this is a remarkable little camera, yes.

Larry Jordan: And, again, price point?

Greg Boren: Price point, around 500 bucks. This one comes with the lens for 500, these you would add the lens.

Larry Jordan: Now, all of these require 12 volts supply, so we would need to feed 12 volts to the camera and we’d get HD SDI coming out the back. Can we do 720 as well as 1080?

Greg Boren: Yes you can, yes. I insisted on that. When I came to work at Marshall – I’d only been there a couple of years – and I said, “You’ve got to do 720.”

Larry Jordan: Oh yes.

Greg Boren: “Why?” and I said, “Because ESP, ABC and Fox all do a lot of sports and they all do 720.”

Larry Jordan: And they’re going to laugh at you if you just do 1080. We have the same problem.

Greg Boren: That’s right.

Larry Jordan: The cameras that we have here just shoot 1080 and we’ve got to run them through a format convertor just to be able to stream 720, so you’re on the side of the angels as far as I’m concerned.

Greg Boren: We can select that with all of these.

Mike Horton: Well, then, why don’t we just use these?

Larry Jordan: I didn’t know about them two weeks ago. Now I do. We just thought about them as monitors.

Mike Horton: Can you put a little teleprompter thingy on this?

Greg Boren: You could, I suppose. These all have regular quarter inch, 20 threads per inch, screw on the bottom or somewhere on them, this one has it top and bottom, so yes. I did a live concert out of Nashville, we streamed out of Nashville two concerts with five of these placed very close to the band and one in the back of the hall and it was…

Larry Jordan: Can I cut them with regular broadcast cameras? Will they cut reasonably well?

Greg Boren: Yes, you want to get in here and paint a little bit with the menus to get them to match as close as you can. These don’t have the deep controls that a broadcast camera has.

Larry Jordan: Do they have an automatic light balance or…

Greg Boren: Yes, yes, you can… do that or you can put a preset in. There’s also adjustable gamma, if people are interested in those things. I’m not sure if your audience understands what I’m saying.

Mike Horton: Oh, they do, trust me.

Greg Boren: They do? That’s great, then I’m talking to the right people. Can I show you another one here?

Larry Jordan: Well, one more camera…

Mike Horton: I don’t, but the audience does.

Larry Jordan: …but I also… is that really a camera? The thing that looks like a period at the end of a sentence?

Greg Boren: This thing here?

Larry Jordan: Yes.

Greg Boren: Yes. This is the brand new, newest, newest, newest, and it has to have an umbilical hanging off of it, I don’t know if you can get that in the shot, because there’s no room to put the connectors on there.

Larry Jordan: Look at that.

Mike Horton: Holy cow.

Greg Boren: You see that ok?

Larry Jordan: Yes.

Greg Boren: It has the same lens, the M12 lens, which means 12 meter lens, and this one does say 3.7 on there.

Mike Horton: It looks like you could get one of those things in a crackerjack box.

Greg Boren: Yes. There’s a joystick on the back of that. Now, this one mounts with a little arrangement that comes on the sides and holds it like that.

Larry Jordan: Now, we’re about to run out of time, but in the time we’ve got left, what do you have for monitors?

Greg Boren: Let me just hurry right up. I’ve brought a monitor – let me pull the cover off.

Mike Horton: Ah, this is what I know Marshall for.

Greg Boren: Yes, and since we’re not going to plug it in here, everybody’s going to see that it makes a nice black.

Larry Jordan: We talked about plugging a monitor in and it just was too complex for us to handle, but the thing actually works, it’s beautiful.

Greg Boren: Yes, this has the very remarkable name of VLCD71MB.

Larry Jordan: I was just going to ask if that was its name.

Greg Boren: Yes. The MB, though, means modular design. If I can turn this around and not throw you, we’ve done this for many years, it even predates me being there. This is a module that you can buy to put different types of inputs in.

Larry Jordan: Ah!

Greg Boren: This particular one has a neat feature for cinematographers. Depending on the SDI module I put in here, I can come in, let’s say, HDMI from the camera and distribute SDI out for the video village.

Larry Jordan: Oh yes.

Greg Boren: For other people to watch, so this can be my viewfinder on the camera but I’m also sending that out. Also, the power supply section is modular. You can plug a regular little connector in here, but this one has a four pin XLR, or there are various battery configurations on here, all kinds of battery configuration – quarter, 20, all the way around. This is full resolution in a seven inch monitor. This is 1080.

Larry Jordan: Full res, 1080.

Greg Boren: 1920 1080 monitor, seven inch. It’s one of the few on the market today.

Larry Jordan: LED, OLED, what?

Greg Boren: No, this is just regular LED back lit LCD.

Larry Jordan: Standard LCD.

Mike Horton: How well does it do in the sun?

Greg Boren: It’s got about a 800 Nit range, so it’s pretty good in the sun. I would recommend a hood in the sun, I think. With almost any monitor I’d recommend that, but anyhow also headphone jack, so if you’re putting in an HDMI you can listen to the camera right there. This is one of our newest monitors.

Larry Jordan: That is so cool. Look at this.

Greg Boren: Oh yes, that’s…

Larry Jordan: You can buy me one for Christmas, Mike.

Mike Horton: Absolutely.

Greg Boren: Yes, it’s a really nice monitor.

Mike Horton: You’re on the list, Larry.

Greg Boren: You can see this live in our booth with a little picture on it at NAB; and can I show you one more camera?

Larry Jordan: You can, real quick.

Greg Boren: I’d love to do that. Oh, by the way, the same little camera, you can get it with a monster lens.

Mike Horton: With that big old lens?

Greg Boren: That big lens there.

Mike Horton: Wow.

Greg Boren: That’s right. That grabs more light and then you can also get wider angle versions.

Larry Jordan: Now, would those be used for broadcast or for surveillance?

Greg Boren: You could use them for surveillance. We’ve customized these for broadcast. We’ve aimed them at the broadcast market. They have broadcast settings in them, broadcast formats. A lot of the surveillance cameras only do things like 60p or something like that. One more little camera.

Mike Horton: Lipstick.

Greg Boren: Lipstick. It mounts with one quarter 20 back here. The Formula 1 guys also bought a bunch of these recently. A pretty neat little camera and also an interchangeable lens, but this one can be dropped in water.

Mike Horton: Do you also sell the devices to mount all this stuff?

Greg Boren: Oh yes. Yes, we have all kinds of mounts. Some of these we get from other people, some we make.

Larry Jordan: Greg, where can people go on the web to learn more about the products Marshall has?

Greg Boren: You can go to, but because we sold so many displays, Who would think?

Larry Jordan: That’s Greg Boren is the Product Marketing Engineer for Marshall Electronics. Greg, thanks for joining us today. This was fun.

Greg Boren: All right. No, thank you.

Mike Horton: Just leave all this stuff here.

Greg Boren: Appreciate it.

Larry Jordan: Take care, bye bye.

Greg Boren: See you, thank you very much.

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Larry Jordan: Jessica Sitomer is a job coach who helps people find work. She’s also a regular on The Buzz and she’s the President of The Greenlight Coach. But what we really like best about Jessica is that she’s good at providing helpful career advice. Hello, Jessica, welcome back.

Jessica Sitomer: Hello, thank you for having me.

Mike Horton: Hi, Jessica.

Larry Jordan: It is nice to finally see your face on the screen. It has been years and years. We hear this wonderful cheerful voice and we’ve never seen you before today. This is a highlight. Mike has written it on his calendar.

Jessica Sitomer: I’m just… glasses or not.

Mike Horton: I think you look good in the glasses.

Jessica Sitomer: Ok.

Larry Jordan: Oh, wonderful touch.

Mike Horton: Yes, Jessica never gets out to LA any more, right?

Larry Jordan: No, she doesn’t.

Mike Horton: It’s been a while since you’ve been out here.

Jessica Sitomer: I do!

Larry Jordan: No, she doesn’t visit the West Coast. She doesn’t like either one of us, actually.

Mike Horton: Oh, that’s right.

Jessica Sitomer: I was there in February, I’ll be back in May.

Mike Horton: Oh good. Well, then you’ll have to stop by and see the new studio. That’s awesome.

Larry Jordan: The new studios are worth seeing. Jessica, we’ve been talking in the office all day about whether we’re busy being busy or whether we’re busy doing work. How would you tell the difference?

Jessica Sitomer: Ok, that’s productivity and it’s really important to identify what you’re doing. For a very long time, I’ve been training my clients to make a list of everything that they do and now I’ve taken it a step further, I’ve been working with my Greenlight Elites and I’ve taken from one of my coaches, Davy Tyburski, he does a graph.

Jessica Sitomer: In the first column it’s action, in the second column it’s impact, in the third column it’s ease and in the fourth column it’s total. Let’s say you write down attendance at networking events, social media reach outs, online resume submissions and you write down everything you do. Then you put the impact, so for networking events, that’s a ten on a scale of one to ten. It has a strong impact and ease, it’s an eight, because I teach you how to network properly so it becomes more easy, so it’s an 18.

Jessica Sitomer: Social media reach outs, you reach out to people, the impact is an eight, so you’re starting to create relationships with people. The ease is a nine, it’s really easy just to do something on social media; and then your total is 17. But then you look at online submissions. The impact is a one, the ease is a ten – it’s really easy to send those out all the time – and it’s really only 11.

Jessica Sitomer: You want to get this rating system in place for everything you do, whether it’s just research or mailings or cold calling, all of the things that you do so you can see whether you’re busy being busy or whether it’s really having an impact on you. Are you doing the easy things or are you doing the impactful things? Then you put it together and the ones that have the highest score as far as impact plus ease, those are your priorities.

Larry Jordan: Can someone who’s not a math wizard actually do this?

Mike Horton: If you can do columns.

Larry Jordan: Is this too much work?

Jessica Sitomer: No! Actually, I wish I could show you my computer right now because I made up a photo for all of you. Tomorrow, when this is posted on YouTube, I’ll see if I can upload a picture to YouTube, because I’ve made this column. It looks great and it’s so easy to do. It’s just four columns.

Larry Jordan: I’ll tell you a secret. If you email me the photo as soon as you’re done talking, we edit the show tonight, it’s posted tonight, so we’ll include your photo as part of your interview, because we have that technical skill right here.

Mike Horton: We can fix everything in post.

Jessica Sitomer: You all are fantastic.

Larry Jordan: Why the focus on efficiency?

Jessica Sitomer: What I have found is that a lot of people – the majority of people – complain that nothing’s working for them. They’re really passionate about what they do but nothing’s working; and then I ask them what they’ve been doing and when they answer, they’re doing the same three or four things over and over and over again for years and expecting something to be different, and especially the things that aren’t showing results.

Jessica Sitomer: As I said, most of them are online submitting, a lot of them are playing around fixing up their websites and their reels and I’m like, “Well, how much impact is that having?” and it’s not having a lot, so you have to look at what the actions are that are going to have a strong impact, and if I’m struggling with them, where do I get help so I can get better at them so that I’ll have impact and ease?

Mike Horton: My sister decided to change careers and went to school, got a medical assistant’s degree and then had job interview after job interview after job interview. These are face to face job interviews and she was never getting the job. This went on for about nine months and finally it seemed to me that it wasn’t how much you know, it was who you know, because the who you know people were getting the jobs, not the how much, not the better qualified. Finally, she ended up getting a job primarily because of who she knew.

Jessica Sitomer: Well, who you know is definitely going to have a big impact, but there’s also a lot that you could do to have an advantage in an interview and really what people are doing wrong in interviews is they’re just answering the questions very stiffly and how they think it needs to be answered instead of sharing stories and having conversations, so the person who’s going in for the interview never actually shows up. The interviewee shows up, but the person who this person will be working with on a regular basis, they don’t get to know in that short amount of time. But I have strategies for that.

Mike Horton: Yes, I was wondering if that was probably one of the reasons, but she’s a real people person. But then again, people change when they get into interview situations. It’s a much different kind of person that you become.

Jessica Sitomer: Exactly and… could have… you.

Larry Jordan: One of the things that you’ve stressed over the years is face to face networking is much more important than anything that we do online or via our website. We want to make that personal contact and it sounds like your system is designed to emphasize the importance of meeting people in a non-threatening social environment as opposed to the formality of a job interview. Am I hearing that correctly?

Jessica Sitomer: Absolutely, because if you know them beforehand then, yes, you’re going to have the advantage and that’s why I really encourage people to get mentors, have strategy meetings, get referrals to people so they can meet them before there is a job available; and then, when the job becomes available, they’ve already gotten to know you, they have an idea of what your work ethic is and what your personality is. That’s some work that people should always be doing, expanding their contacts.

Larry Jordan: There’s a phrase I use in my classes, and I want you to tell me if I should continue using it or if I’ve gone completely afield, which is it isn’t who you know and it isn’t necessarily who knows you, it’s who knows what you know. Would you agree with that?

Jessica Sitomer: Who knows what you know. Ok, I get it. Yes. You know why? Because with social media, I might not know you and you might not know me, but if you’re following me on social media you’ll know what I know, because you’re learning that about me, so yes. You know, it’s who you know, it’s how well you know them and I think it’s how well the person knows you that ties them together.

Larry Jordan: Jessica, one of the things that you may not know is that Mike has a routine that he goes through before every show to get himself loosened up for the show and he spins plates, and so he’s got these plates spinning in the air, it’s a way of de-stressing.

Mike Horton: While I’m saying, “Who you know, how much I know, who you know, who you know.”

Larry Jordan: And you would never think of Mike being a juggler, spinning plates out in the Green Room as he’s waiting to go on.

Mike Horton: But it works.

Larry Jordan: You would know Mike and you would know that he’s this bon vivant and incredible co-host, but you wouldn’t know him as a juggler unless you had seen him, so it isn’t until we know what he knows that Mike actually sort of has a personality associated with him. You know what I mean?

Mike Horton: Thank you. You lost me at juggling.

Larry Jordan: But it was great. It was a wonderful example. The plates spinning…

Jessica Sitomer: I’m just wondering how many plates he has in the air, since we’re talking about productivity.

Larry Jordan: Any more than three and we’re sweeping up the results.

Mike Horton: More than three, yes. Just like you, Jessica, more than three.

Jessica Sitomer: …that for their own productivity. Another one of my coaches, James Malinchak, once taught me something that I have used and I find so effective and that is his Post-It method. You take a Post-It, you write three things down for your work that you’re going to do that day and then, once you’ve accomplished them, you crumple it up and you throw it away. No saving Post-Its and checking off things and it’s nice and simple for people, you get three things done that are effective and it’s more than most people are doing on a regular basis in our industry.

Mike Horton: Is that like setting goals, only short term goals rather than long term goals?

Jessica Sitomer: Absolutely, and they should all be targeted toward those long term goals in an effective manner.

Mike Horton: Long term goals. If you don’t achieve that long term goal, that’s just debilitating, so I’m always wondering…

Jessica Sitomer: Ok, first of all the tonality here is just speaking volumes. Long term goals are amazing, because that’s how you know that you’re working for something. How do you know you’re not going to achieve them? Because they’re long term, so you’re always working to achieve them and just the fact that you have your eye focused on something, things are going to fall into place.

Jessica Sitomer: You’re going to hear things in conversations, you’re going to meet people that, when you share your goal, they’re going to be able to help you; whereas if you have no goal, then people have no idea what to do with you and how to help you.

Larry Jordan: But Jessica, Jessica, Jessica, what happens if I’m doing all this hard work because I don’t want to step outside of my comfort zone, I don’t like meeting people or I don’t want to go to social events? Mike talks constantly about how hard it is to get people to come to user group meetings. They like hiding inside their room. How do you get past the ‘I’m doing busy work to avoid meeting people’?

Jessica Sitomer: Ok, well, the first question you ask is how is this working for me? Obviously, I can guarantee you that if you’re doing busy work to just be busy, to avoid the things that are going to help you get your goals, then you’re never going to reach your goals, so it’s either time to do something else or it’s time to get yourself educated, because education and learning is the key to overcoming these fears. Your fear is of the unknown.

Jessica Sitomer: You don’t know what to expect at a networking event, so you imagine the worst case scenario of I don’t know what to say or I’m going to be shunned by the cliques or I’m going to be standing all by myself by the wall and no-one’s going to talk to me, instead of what could be. If you don’t know what could be, then you need to learn. There are books, there are home study programs, there are coaches like me.

Jessica Sitomer: There are always techniques and tools to help you so if you really want this, you’ve got to say to yourself even if I’m stepping out of my comfort zone in baby steps, like in What About Bob? baby stepping to the elevator, that’s ok. I’ve got my Greenlight Elites this month, they’re taking action every day. I gave them a booklet so that every day they had one action to do. They were all doable actions, but the progress they were making was amazing just because they did that one single action, which is more than they would have been doing.

Larry Jordan: Jessica, we have run out of time but you have not run out of advice. Where can people go on the web to learn more about all the good advice that you’ve got?

Jessica Sitomer: They can go to Check out my latest blog for my March Madness Bundle Sale. $1100 worth of learning for 97 bucks.

Mike Horton: Wow.

Larry Jordan: That’s Jessica Sitomer is the President of The Greenlight Coach and, Jessica, thanks for joining us today.

Mike Horton: Thanks, Jessica.

Larry Jordan: Bye bye.

Jessica Sitomer: Bye.

Larry Jordan: Nicholas Pisarro Junior has developed complex software and hardware for over 40 years. He’s also been working with Final Cut since version one. Recently, he updated his product for Final Cut Pro 10, called Backups for Final Cut Pro, that makes backups easy. And, if we’ve managed to switch our Skype box, I get to say hello, Nicholas…

Mike Horton: There he is.

Larry Jordan: …good to have you back.

Nicholas Pisarro: Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to be back. I’ve been catching up on some old programs so I get into the rhythm of things and it’s always enjoyable.

Larry Jordan: Nick, I just realized that the last time we had you on the show was July of 2013. What have you been doing since, over that last year and a half?

Nicholas Pisarro: Well, I do IOS work, I’ve done a couple of projects for a company called Arccos Golf that sells a set of sensors you put on your golf clubs and it knows when you hit the ball and it sends it to your iPhone and you can actually see where you hit the ball on the golf course and all kinds of statistics like that.

Larry Jordan: The sensors are on the golf club?

Nicholas Pisarro: Yes, it fits on the head of the golf club, where the handle is. There’s a standard fitting on the top of that, so you just unscrew that and you plug these things in. It’s a set of 14 sensors. There’s a special one for the putter and they’ve gotten themselves in the physical Apple stores, as well as the Apple website, so they’ve got a ton of money, they’ve done everything first class and if you go to and watch the video, they’ve done this video that’s so good, you want to rip open your wallet and buy one of these sets just because the video is so good. I mean, they really did a first class job on this.

Mike Horton: This doesn’t even sound fair. Put sensors on your golf club to know where it was hit.

Nicholas Pisarro: Well, they actually have a version of the app for tournaments that turns off a lot of the statistics.

Mike Horton: Turns off?

Nicholas Pisarro: So you can use it in a tournament but you can’t look at your game until you’ve finished the game.

Mike Horton: Ah, that’s a great idea.

Nicholas Pisarro: It will record your game but you can’t use the information to see how you’re doing and things like that.

Larry Jordan: That’s very cool.

Mike Horton: You’ll be so bogged down with technology, you’ll forget exactly… just don’t think, do.

Larry Jordan: Well, I want to see it broadcasting from the golf ball. That’s really what I want to see.

Mike Horton: It’s one of the problems people have with those fitness things. I mean, you’re so wired in to all this fitness technology that, jeez, just run, job.

Nicholas Pisarro: The problem is building electronics that can handle the 1000 G-force on the golf course.

Mike Horton: Well, they’ve obviously done it.

Larry Jordan: Nick, I want to talk about another piece of software you’ve written which is called Backups for Final Cut Pro 10. Tell us about what that does.

Nicholas Pisarro: My inspiration for it was the original backup feature of Final Cut Pro 7, which would back up all your work every seven minutes or five minutes or whatever and initially Final Cut Pro 10 didn’t have anything like that, and the earlier versions were particularly prone to…

Mike Horton: Crashing.

Nicholas Pisarro: Yes, crashing and molting your files and then any editing thing, like you would go and color balance your whole thing and decide that’s not right and you say, “Oh, how am I going to get out of this?” and whatnot, so that was my inspiration. I’ve also as a software developer developed backup programs for the last 40 years or so, so I know that technology very well, so it was a perfect fit for me to develop this program.

Larry Jordan: Now, are we talking backups? Because it almost sounds like you’re talking versions, where you’ve got multiple versions in case you want to go back ten or 15 minutes. Are we looking at versioning or actual backups of media and all the edit information?

Nicholas Pisarro: It will back up your media, but the basic goal of it is to back up your work every few minutes, up to every two minutes if you want.

Mike Horton: So the backups are rewriting the other backups? We’re not having a ton of different backups?

Nicholas Pisarro: If you do it every two minutes, you can restore to any of the two minute backups that you’ve done. It creates snapshots and each snapshot just has the files that have changed since the last one. It’s a continuous record of what you did.

Larry Jordan: How would I differentiate between your backups and the backups that Final Cut itself makes? Because it does a backup of the databases every 15 minutes. What would be the advantage of using your system?

Nicholas Pisarro: I do it a lot more often. When you’re editing, 15 minutes is like an eternity in the amount of work you can get done. I also have a lot of customization features. One thing it has is, if you do a manual backup, you can say why you did it. You can say, “Well, I’ve just finished the color balance on such-and-such project.” One of the problems with doing a restore is you don’t remember when you did something. When did I finish the rough cut?

Nicholas Pisarro: You have no idea, so this you could click on, you say I finished the rough cut of such-and-such movie or whatever you’re working on and then you know that if you want to go back to that stage, you can do it. You can also restore individual projects, events. You can save your motion templates and back those up automatically, so that’s a whole other area where you’re doing work and I don’t think Motion… does that for you, for example.

Larry Jordan: I understand, if my notes are correct, that you’re working on a beta of a new version. Is that true?

Nicholas Pisarro: Right, I’m just coming out with a new version. I’ve added filters so that you can just back up certain libraries, you can set up a backup for just a particular library. Another problem is that the program uses the modify date of your file to know when to back it up, but if you’re backing up across file systems, the dates are stored in a slightly different way for, say, Windows versus Mac or if it’s on Xsan, and so I’ve come up with a way of storing those so it will work across file systems.

Nicholas Pisarro: And then I put in a little trim button so you can delete the old snapshots, just little things like that that make it run a little smoother for people. I get almost no support requests for it, it’s quite amazing.

Mike Horton: Really?

Larry Jordan: That’s a wonderful trick.

Mike Horton: So it obviously works.

Nicholas Pisarro: I only get a support email about once every couple of weeks and most of the time it’s for features and things, so if somebody asks for support I spend an hour on a message because I can do it.

Mike Horton: It needs to be said.

Nicholas Pisarro: So I have a very loyal following, I’m really amazed. I’ve not gotten less than a three star review on the App Store and it’s rated five stars and it works.

Mike Horton: Yes, that’s what I was going to say.

Nicholas Pisarro: And most of the customers are professional people, they’re not casual users. They’re people who use it full time.

Larry Jordan: Nick, how much is the software?

Nicholas Pisarro: Oh, it’s only $18.

Mike Horton: Wow.

Larry Jordan: Wow, and it’s available in the App Store?

Nicholas Pisarro: It’s on the App Store, you can just look for backups and it’ll pop up, or if you look for Final Cut Pro, it’ll appear on the same page as Final Cut Pro.

Larry Jordan: What’s your plan for the new version? Have you figured out when it’s going to be released?

Nicholas Pisarro: I have a released candidate out there and it’ll probably be out in the next week or two.

Larry Jordan: Oh, that’s very exciting.

Nicholas Pisarro: Yes, and it’s an amazingly sophisticated program. We don’t think about this…

Mike Horton: As a user.

Larry Jordan: Yes, well, the thing I’ve discovered is the software that does the most, if it’s well designed, it’s easy to use and you don’t realize how technically complex it is. What website can people go to learn more about your software?

Nicholas Pisarro: I just set up an easy URL –

Larry Jordan: That’s and Nick Pisarro Junior is the President of NP Associates LLC. Nick, as always, a delight talking to you. Thanks for joining us.

Nicholas Pisarro: Ok, very good. Thank you.

Larry Jordan: Take care. Bye bye.

Nicholas Pisarro: Thanks a lot.

Larry Jordan: Jim Tierney founded Digital Anarchy in 2001 specifically to develop video plug-ins to simplify creating visual effects. One of his most popular is Beauty Box, a digital retouching plug-in; and, if our magic Skype box is working, I get to say hello, it’s fun to talk with the Chief Executive Anarchist of any company.

Jim Tierney: Exactly. How you doing, Larry?

Mike Horton: Hi, Jim.

Larry Jordan: It’s good to see you. Jim, just before we start talking about the latest stuff that you’re working on, why did you decide to create Beauty Box originally?

Jim Tierney: Actually, I saw a program at MGLA, the motion graphics group that Trish and Chris Meyer started, about doing music videos and the amount of beauty work that went into that, and we thought we could do it a lot more easily with software and that’s how Beauty Box came about.

Larry Jordan: Did it start with Photoshop or did it start as video?

Jim Tierney: No, it started as video. We’ve always been kind of a video plug-in company and that’s really where our emphasis was. We did sort of shift over to Photoshop for a little while, but we’re definitely coming back to video at this point. But yes, it was originally a video plug-in.

Larry Jordan: Aside from the fact that video’s got multiple frames running at the same time, is there a difference between Beauty Box and Photoshop and Beauty Box on video from a technological point of view?

Jim Tierney: Not a whole lot. There is a little bit of a difference between the fact that, of course, we are processing all these frames so you do need to keep things consistent frame to frame. With Photoshop, you don’t really need to keep the consistency as much from photo to photo, but if there were any variations with video frame to frame, it’s something that you would definitely notice. But technically, the algorithms are pretty much the same, it’s just a matter of how we handle processing all the different frames.

Larry Jordan: One of the things that impresses me a lot is that Beauty Box has continued to evolve as a video plug-in over the years since you first released is, and I was just trying to think about what the features were that you added after the initial release. What’s the stuff that’s been accumulating with the plug-in?

Jim Tierney: The big thing has always been speed, so we’ve always been trying to increase the speed gradually over time. Certainly, 1.0 was pretty slow and even 1.2 increased the speed and that was always the big complaint about it. Mostly, it was just trying to find ways to speed it up. With 3.0, we added in better automatic masking, so it’s better at figuring out what the skin tones are.

Jim Tierney: We’ve always used face detection as the cheap and easy way of figuring out what skin tones are; with version 3.0 we added in a bunch of other algorithms to figure that out. Then we added in something for removing shine, so if you have oily skin and you’ve got bright lights reflecting on the skin, it helps reduce shine on the skin. With 4.0, the big new feature and actually really the only new feature is just much better optimization for GPUs, allowing you to get real time performance on some video cards.

Mike Horton: Real time performance?

Jim Tierney: Real time performance. You can play it back…

Mike Horton: Wow, Jim.

Larry Jordan: It seems to me that GPUs are really designed for the kind of pixel processing that you’re doing, because you really need to blast a lot of pixels in a short period of time. How hard was it to implement GPU acceleration?

Jim Tierney: We’ve had it almost since the beginning, but to really get in there and optimize it, I mean, we’ve been working on this release for about a year. It’s taken quite a while to really get the performance increase that we wanted to get and it helped that Nvidia and AMD released some pretty powerful cards, like the Nvidia GTX980. It’s just an amazing card for the price that you can get it for.

Mike Horton: Yes, but you can’t put those in a Mac, though, right? Those are PC cards?

Jim Tierney: Yes, PC. If you have an older Mac Pro, there is a way to sort of do a Franken-machine version of it. Maybe not the 980, but we have a Titan board, which is actually a little bit better than the 980 and… external power supply and running into one of the back of the Mac, but we got it working. It’s great, it’s super fast on this old Mac Pro that we have. It’s pretty awesome.

Larry Jordan: It’s got its own air conditioner in the back…

Mike Horton: But you have one of those, I think, back there somewhere.

Larry Jordan: Yes I do.

Jim Tierney: Yes, it now has an extra air conditioner attached.

Larry Jordan: Jim, just out of curiosity, what makes adding GPU support so hard? Speaking as a non-developer, I don’t even have a clue, what’s the challenge? You don’t just flip a switch and say, “Wake up, GPU”?

Jim Tierney: No, it’s a little bit more involved than that, and also AMD and Nvidia use different APIs. There’s Nvidia CUDA, which is their own separate deal; there’s Open CL, which AMD uses and what you really want to use for the new Mac Pros. But they are each their own different language and it’s just how you push the pixels through these different APIs and get them onto the cards in a very efficient way, and I’m not really explaining it very well, but there’s a lot to managing how the pixels and the memory and everything works and getting it quickly onto the card and off of the card.

Mike Horton: Bottom line, though, if lives depend on your products, should we be using a beefy HP workstation with a giant Nvidia card to pump all this stuff through? Or can we get away with a MacBook Pro?

Jim Tierney: It depends on what you’re doing. If you’re doing a lot of effects heavy work, you’re much better off with the HP workstation, for sure. If you’re doing a lot of editing type stuff, then the MacBook works great; and, of course, the new Mac Pros are plenty powerful. They’re not super upgradeable but that’s the way it goes with Apple.

Jim Tierney: But even a mid-range PC, put a bunch of memory into it, get one of these brand new Nvidia boards and you’ve got a really great workstation. It doesn’t need to be this top of the line HP thing, although those are great. You can get a run of the mill PC from Costco and then stick a really good video card in there and some memory and you’ve got a good machine.

Larry Jordan: I’ve got an aesthetic question, before we run out of time. There’s a lot of debate over whether and how much retouching to do and Beauty Box can take somebody and make them look normal all the way to plastic. What’s your opinion on how much retouching is too much?

Jim Tierney: The goal of Beauty Box is really to keep things looking realistic. It’s really just applying a layer of digital makeup. That’s really what we strive for. From beginning this, the way that we designed it, you certainly can push it to being more plastic, but ultimately people can tell. You really want to make it look like it’s just a layer of digital makeup.

Jim Tierney: You don’t want people to notice that the effect has been applied, and they will because you can’t make someone who’s 50 look like they’re 25, as much as I would like that to be the case. We have not figured out a way to do that realistically but, you know, you can easily take ten years off somebody and have them look great and not have it apparent that there’s any effect applied at all.

Mike Horton: I hope that you come out with Jowl Shaper. Bring it up a little bit here.

Larry Jordan: No, we’ll get some Scotch Tape for you, Mike, it’ll be great. What are you looking at for the future? Any special features you’re keeping your mind open on?

Jim Tierney: For the time being, we’ve got some other stuff that we’re working on. Certainly we need to speed up FlickerFree, that’s one of our other plug-ins. We’ve got a number of other video plug-ins that are in the works. We might be showing them at NAB, we’ll see. We’d like to be.

Mike Horton: Yes, Jim will be at the Plug-In Pavilion and hopefully at the Supermeet too.

Jim Tierney: Yes.

Mike Horton: So you’ll get a chance to do one on one with Jim and all his cool products.

Larry Jordan: Jim always has cool products.

Mike Horton: Yes.

Jim Tierney: We’ll come out with more cool video products, for sure.

Larry Jordan: For people who want to keep track of all the cool products that you’ve got, both old and new, what website can they go to?

Jim Tierney: It’s

Larry Jordan: That’s and Jim Tierney is the President and Chief Executive Anarchist. Jim, it’s been fun chatting with you today, thanks for joining us.

Mike Horton: See you in a couple of weeks, Jim.

Jim Tierney: All right, thanks for having me. Take care, guys.

Larry Jordan: Bye bye.

Larry Jordan: You know, I was just thinking about the guests that we had on today, starting with the wonderful cameras that Greg had and the ideas…

Mike Horton: Yes, that was fun. I want them all.

Larry Jordan: …from Jessica, talking about people and meeting people at trade shows, and that brings to mind NAB. Are you going to go this year?

Mike Horton: Yes. Hey, we just sold a ticket. No, seriously, just now.

Larry Jordan: You’re up to six people. What are you referring to?

Mike Horton: The Supermeet.

Larry Jordan: And what is the Supermeet?

Mike Horton: For those of you who do not know the Supermeet, the Supermeet is one of the biggest digital get-together network gatherings at NAB. It’ll be April 14th and if you are going, this is one of the events you must go to; and by the way, the raffle right now, it’s over $107,000 worth of stuff. Honest to God, it’s insane. It takes you five minutes to scroll through the list on the website.

Larry Jordan: And if you haven’t had a chance to see Michael do the raffle…

Mike Horton: It’s crazy.

Larry Jordan: …you would pay just to watch him post the raffle. It is amazing.

Mike Horton: It’s crazy; and I know you’re going to be there in the South Hall.

Larry Jordan: We will be there and most of my staff will be there.

Mike Horton: Yes.

Larry Jordan: In addition, we’ll have most of this week’s guests there, starting with Greg Boren. He’s the Product Marketing Engineer at Marshall Electronics; Jessica Sitomer is the President of The Greenlight Coach; Nicholas Pisarro Junior is the President of NP Associates LLC; and Jim Tierney, our fourth guest, is also going to be at NAB, he’s the Chief Anarchist at Digital Anarchy.

Larry Jordan: There’s lot of history in our industry and it’s all posted to our website at Here, you’ll find hundreds of past shows and thousands of interviews all searchable, all online and all available.

Larry Jordan: You can visit with us on Twitter, @dpbuzz, and Facebook, at Our theme music is composed by Nathan Dugi-Turner, additional music on The Buzz is provided by Text transcripts are provided by Take 1 Transcription.

Larry Jordan: Our producer is Cirina Catania. Our engineering team is lead by Megan Paulos, includes Ed Golya, Keegan Guy, Lindsay Luebbert, Brianna Murphy and James Stevens. On behalf of Mike Horton, thanks for listening to The Buzz.

Mike Horton: Goodbye, everybody.

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