HOST
Larry Jordan

GUESTS
Cirina Catania, Founder and Lead Creative, The Catania Group
Bruce Logan, Director of Photography, Bruce Logan Film
William Boodell, Editor, BoodellArts
Yvonne Russo, Producer/Director
Nancy Schreiber, ASC
James DeRuvo, Film and Technology Reporter, DoddleNEWS

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Larry Jordan: Tonight on The Buzz we look at what makes a film and a filmmaker successful.  We’ll talk with five successful filmmakers about their process, their mistakes, what they’ve learned and their ideas don what it takes to create a successful film.

Larry Jordan:  We start with Cirina Catania, award winning producer and director with multiple network credits who sets the scene by defining the filmmaking process.

Larry Jordan: Bruce Logan, special effects wizard and filmmaker, explains how he selects a book to turn into a film, and how to determine if a film will appeal to an audience.

Larry Jordan:  Director, editor William Boodell looks at the role editing plays in creating a successful film, and whether film festivals are still useful for filmmakers.

Larry Jordan:  Yvonne Russo is a producer director, currently balancing a number of active film projects.  Tonight, we talk with her about the process of producing multiple projects and where financing fits into the picture.

Larry Jordan:  Nancy Schreiber is a legendary director of photography and member of ASC. She’s worked on more than 130 film and television sets, and shares her thoughts on common mistakes filmmakers make, and what it takes to run a productive set.

Larry Jordan:  All this, plus James DeRuvo with our weekly DoddleNEWS update.  The Buzz starts now.

Announcer:  Since the dawn of digital filmmaking – authoritative – one show serves a worldwide network of media professionals – current – uniting industry experts – production – filmmakers – post production – and content creators around the planet – distribution.  From the media capital of the world in Los Angeles, California, the Digital Production Buzz goes live now.

Larry Jordan:  Welcome to the Digital Production Buzz, the world’s longest running podcast for the creative content industry, covering media production, post production and marketing around the world.

Larry Jordan:  Hi, my name is Larry Jordan.  This week, Apple announced that all the apps in Final Cut Studio 3 or earlier will not be supported in the next version of the Mac OS, called High Sierra.  This includes Final Cut 7, Soundtrack Pro and DVD Studio Pro.  I’ll have more on this later, but I want to recommend that if you are using these applications now, do not upgrade to High Sierra, nor purchase a new computer system until you have planned to migrate away from Final Cut 7.

Larry Jordan:  IBC is getting closer.  It’s now about three weeks away.  We’re planning a series of shows before, during and after the event to highlight key announcements relevant to filmmakers and our industry.  We’ve also partnered with Pro Movie Maker magazine in the UK to provide onsite coverage. I’ll have more on what we’re doing later this month.

Larry Jordan:  By the way, I want to invite you to subscribe to our free weekly show newsletter at digitalproductionbuzz.com.  Every issue provides quick links to the different segments on the show, plus articles of interest to filmmakers, and best of all, it’s free and released every Saturday.  We’re redesigning our weekly newsletter to make it more visual, easier to listen to both shows and interviews as well as include relevant articles for filmmakers.  We are always interested in your comments on what we can do to improve it.

Larry Jordan:  Now it’s time for a DoddleNEWS update with James DeRuvo.  Hello James.

James DeRuvo:  Hi Larry, how are you?

Larry Jordan: There we go.  Had to have the right volume thingy turned up.  What you got?

James DeRuvo:  Remember we were talking about the Nikon D850 last week?

Larry Jordan:  Yes, they somehow managed to leak their own specs early if I remember?

James DeRuvo:  Yes, and they made it official yesterday.  All the leaked specs that were outlined in that slide show were confirmed including a 45.7 megapixel CMOS sensor.  Man, that thing is huge.  An expanded image buffer that can grab 51 RAW images before it writes to the card. It’ll shoot in 4K, 8 bit, 4:2:2 by an external HDMI mount, and it’s got this cool silent shooting feature which basically converts your D850 into a mirrorless camera, which I think is really interesting.

Larry Jordan:  So James, you like cameras.  What are your thoughts?

James DeRuvo:  Well I agree with Jared Polin of Fro Knows Photo, and he says this camera is stacked with features.  When it comes to shooting weddings, sport, corporate video, Nikon may have just announced the best all around DSLR for the money.  Its only shortcoming may be Nikon’s apparent inability to improve on their autofocus.  Much like Canon did with dual pixel autofocus.

Larry Jordan:  OK, that’s the Nikon DH850, what’s next?

James DeRuvo:  Well, if you bought one of those DJI selfie drones, the Spark, you’d better upgrade its firmware before September 1^st, because if you don’t, DJI is basically going to remote kill it so it won’t fly.   The firmware update improves the efficiency of the drone’s battery system to maximize its 15 minute flight envelope, and if you don’t upgrade, you’re not going to be able to fly the drone at all.  That raises some serious privacy issues because if they can remotely kill your drone, that’s kind of weird.

Larry Jordan:  Well it sounds like DJI’s ability to remotely kill a device is a two edged sword.  It’s nice that you can take something dangerous out of the sky, but as you said, there’s privacy issues.

James DeRuvo:  Yes, when DJI announced the Spark selfie drone, it was an instant hit, I mean you could control it with hand gestures, you could fly it ten feet away.  You didn’t need a controller, it was a great idea for someone just learning how to fly a drone.  But issues popped up almost immediately, either due to operator error because of the short flight envelope, or there was something wrong with the propeller management system, because the flight envelope was 20 to 25 percent shorter than they rated it to be, so instead of 15 minutes, it was down to ten to 12 minutes, and DJI decided to create a firmware update to close that gap and to get it back up to a 15 minute flight time.  And you have to update it by September 1^st or you won’t be able to fly it.  If they can remote kill a device, what else can they do remotely using your own drone?  That’s quite scary.

Larry Jordan:  So that’s DJI, what else do we have?

James DeRuvo:  Rode announced the winners of the My Rode Reel 2017 short film contest this week.  Submissions were up over 24 percent with over 1500 films in competition.  How would you like to be the judge having to watch 1500 films?  The winners received a massive prize package that included a Blackmagic Ursa 4k camera, a Freefly MoVI Pro handheld bundle, an Atomos Shogun external monitor recorder, and every single Rode microphone they have in their catalog.  Can you imagine, you win and you get like 20 different microphones.  It’s hysterical.  All told, over half a million dollars in prizes, and it’s going to get bigger next year.

Larry Jordan:  Well James, you missed the best part of this story.  Who won?

James DeRuvo:  There were over 28 winners in major categories of genre, technical and regional.  And Bea Macapagal was the winner of the Judges Award.  She won for best female director in 2016, so Rode’s still making categories, they’ve expanded them, and that’s starting to pay dividends.  This year they added a Young Filmmaker category as well as a new vlogging category and a travel vlogging category as well as commercials, so there’s no time like the present to start thinking about what you want to do for 2018.

Larry Jordan:  Well that’s cool.  What else are we working on for the stories for this week?

James DeRuvo:  Other stories we’re following include my review of the Moment lenses for the iPhone, and an android, beautiful mobile filmmaking lenses.  They’re just incredibly well built, they’re really nice.  Mistika Insight is a new kind of video editor, and AMC isn’t taking MoviePass’s new pricing structure very well.  In fact, they’re now banning all MoviePass holders from using their membership.  It’s going to get ugly.

Larry Jordan:  For people that want more information, where can they go on the web?

James DeRuvo: All these stories can be found at doddlenews.com.

Larry Jordan:  James DeRuvo is the senior writer for DoddleNEWS and joins us every week with the latest news update.  James, thanks for joining us today.

James DeRuvo:  Have a good weekend Larry.

Larry Jordan:  You too, take care, bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  Here’s another website I want to introduce you to.  Doddlenews.com. DoddleNEWS gives you a portal into the broadcast, video and film industries.  It’s a leading online resource, presenting news, reviews and products for the film and video industry.  DoddleNEWS also offers a resource guide and crew management platforms specifically designed for production.  These digital call sheets, along with their app, directory and premium listings, provide in depth organizational tools for busy production professionals.  DoddleNEWS is a part of the Thalo Arts Community, a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers.  From photography to filmmaking, performing arts to fine arts, and everything in between, Thalo is filled with resources you need to succeed.  Whether you want the latest industry news, need to network with other creative professionals or require state of the art online tools to manage your next project, there’s only one place to go.  Doddlenews.com.

Larry Jordan:  Cirina Catania is a successful writer, director, journalist, tech evangelist and filmmaker.  She also produced the Buzz for almost nine years, which makes it really nice for me to say hello Cirina, welcome back.

Cirina Catania:  Hi, it’s so nice to hear your voice.

Larry Jordan:  It’s wonderful to hear yours as well.  Cirina, this week we’re looking at what it takes to create a successful film.  What are your thoughts?

Cirina Catania:  Well I think one of the first things you have to do is figure out what is success to you.  Is it commercial and financial?  Do you want to provide for your future, and that of your family?  Or is it more important to have an artistic legacy or do you want to save the world with an important message?  I think those are questions we have to ask ourselves.

Larry Jordan:  Is there a right answer?

Cirina Catania:  No, there’s never a right answer.  The only right answer is the one that feels good to you, and don’t let anybody else tell you what that answer should be.   As an independent.

Larry Jordan:  We have a really good conversation with Yvonne Russo coming up shortly, and she spends a lot of time talking about producing because I recorded it earlier this morning.  From your perspective, which is the bigger challenge, finding the right script, finding financing or something else?

Cirina Catania:  Well I think it’s got to always start with the story, it’s got to start with the premise of the film, start with a story and then from there, figure out how you’re going to get it made.  Are you being hired to work for someone else, or is this going to be an independent feature and you want to find financing for it?  Depending on where your audience will be, based on that story, where do you go?  Yvonne is an awesome producer.  She and I have worked together many times in the past, so I’m sure she’ll have a lot of good things to say about that.

Larry Jordan:  Before we get into more nuts and bolts, how would you define the filmmaking process?  Is it production or more than that?

Cirina Catania:  It’s much more than that.  I think if you’re talking about, for example, a director.  If you want to be a good director, you have to be educated about the world around you.  You have to travel the world, you can’t make good films in a bubble.  You can’t understand human nature in a bubble, and no matter what you’re doing, you’re telling a story about either the world as the person in your film, or the people in your film.  So get out in the world and learn about things and then you’ll be able to tell a better story.  Once that’s done, then you have to start about the physical production.  You have to make sure that all your little Indians and all your little workers, and all your bosses and everything’s all lined up.

Larry Jordan: Where does gear fit into the whole process?

Cirina Catania:  I thought about Indians because Yvonne is native American and she was the boss, and she had us all lined up.

Larry Jordan:  Where does gear fit into creating a successful film?  Are we paying too much attention to our hardware?

Cirina Catania:  Yes, I think we are.  But I think a lot of people are realizing that we’ve been doing that.  Everybody wants to go out with their shopping cart and buy as much as they possibly can.  But don’t go broke buying stuff.  You can make a great film on an iPhone if you’re doing it for the web.  On the other hand, if you’re making a professional documentary that’s going to be seen on a big screen, you need different equipment.  I was shooting one of my very favorite scenes with the Blackmagic Cinema, the 4.6 and it has this gorgeous $13,000 Zeiss, the T2.9 CZ lens, and it’s just so beautiful.  Of all of the shots in that particular documentary, it’s my favorite because in that instance, the equipment helped me tell the story because at that moment I wanted to zoom in on that scene where the athlete was on the track looking down and very slowly looks right up at you and becomes the wolf.  That was very necessary.  I could not have shot that particular scene using anything but that particular lens, in my mind, creatively.

Cirina Catania:   On the other hand, I just shot a corporate video for a client and I used a little Osmo DJI because they wanted to shoot moving shots with a gimbal in tight spaces, and we didn’t have space for a big camera, and I had also shot some interviews with the Blackmagic Cinema and some of the Sony equipment.  But they actually ended up using a lot of the Osmo shots in the final film, and it looked great.  That’s just a very inexpensive little camera.

Larry Jordan:  Later tonight we’re going to talk with Bruce Logan who’s a filmmaker as well for his advice for older filmmakers.  So what I want to ask you is for advice for someone who’s creating their first serious film, where there’s money and reputations on the line.  What do you recommend?

Cirina Catania:  Well I think for any young filmmaker starting out, and I feel very lucky because everyone needs a mentor and over the years I’ve been lucky to have worked either near or with people like Sydney Pollack and Robert Redford and Peter Hyams and Billy Friedkin but my favorite mentor of all, and best friend at the time, was John Milius who taught me so much about the way he thought about writing scripts.  He’s an amazing writer and one of the things he and I agreed on was he didn’t believe in always following what the Hollywood spies tell you is necessary for script structure.  It was instinctive to him.  Get a story he wanted to tell and the characters started speaking to him and somehow the structure fell into place, but he didn’t let it drive him.  He was driving.  He was sailing the ship.

Cirina Catania:  The other thing is, I tell young people that it’s amazing what can be accomplished if you’re willing to share the credit.   And another thing is, don’t jump into the deep end of the pool until you’re sure of two things.  Number one, make sure there’s no sharks in the water, there’s a lot of them in our business.  Number two, make sure you can swim to the other side on your own, that you’re prepared, and Yvonne I’m sure will talk about this, that you have the foundation of the knowledge of how to make a film.  Don’t over reach.  Don’t, and never ever say you can do something that you can’t and put yourself on a crew when they’re depending on you.

Larry Jordan:  I’m already taking notes and my pen is running out of ink.  Cirina, for people that need more information where can they go on the web to keep track of you and your projects?

Cirina Catania:  Go to thecataniagroup.com.

Larry Jordan:  All one word, thecataniagroup.com, and Cirina Catania is the founder and lead creator for The Catania Group.  Cirina, as always, it’s wonderful.  Take care of yourself.

Larry Jordan:  The last time we talked with Bruce Logan, he was describing how he created some of the most iconic special effects in film history such as the explosion of the Death Star in Star Wars, but Bruce is also an independent filmmaker which is what we want to focus on tonight.  Hello Bruce, welcome back.

Bruce Logan:  Hi, thanks for having me back.

Larry Jordan:  Bruce, there is so much competition today with audiences fragmented in all directions.  What does it take to be a successful independent filmmaker in today’s environment?

Bruce Logan:  I think you have to make projects that follow your passion because if you try and gain the market, you’re always doing something that’s going to compromise the project.  So for me, it’s get something that really speaks to you and that you’re passionate about, and do your very best with it.

Larry Jordan:  So should we do what we believe in?  Or should we do what we think the audience is going to watch?

Bruce Logan:  Well that’s the age old question isn’t it?  I think that we do something that we want to do, but you don’t want to get so outrageous that you don’t think you’re going to find an audience for it.  Perhaps you find something passionate that you’re interested in, that you think will do that, but don’t just go for the audience, I don’t think that works.

Larry Jordan: The trick is to find something that you care about because it’s so much work to put a film together, that if your heart isn’t in it, it’s just an uphill labor of just work.

Bruce Logan:  Yes, if you run out of steam when you’re making your own film, it’s the kiss of death, so you have to find that passion in the project and move forward and that will carry you through to the end of it.

Larry Jordan:  Audiences are a fickle lot.  A few decades ago they wanted westerns and then recently they wanted fun musicals, next they want action films and cartoon characters.  How do you figure out what the audience is looking for right now?

Bruce Logan: I think you’ve got to be a student of the craft.  I think you have to watch a lot of movies, you have to read your trades, and you have to follow the trends.  And I don’t always agree with the trends.  Things go in waves.  Right now we have comic book movies, we have action movies, and we have dramas.

Larry Jordan:   But most of all we have sequels.  There’s not a lot of risk taking going on right now.

Bruce Logan:  This is absolutely true, and somebody once told me that if you’re not making it from a known literary property, or it’s a sequel, then we’re just not interest in the project.  That is very disheartening.

Larry Jordan:  I was just thinking, the more well known the book, the harder it is to turn into a film.  For me, ‘The Lord of the Rings’ is a textbook example of this, because everybody has in their imagination, what every one of those characters look like and behaved and did.  If we’re supposed to create films out of popular books, how difficult is it to make a movie out of a book because it seems like we’re fighting all those mental images of what we have of those book characters?

Bruce Logan:  I think the hardest thing about adapting a book to become a movie is the fact that in a book we can hear what the characters are thinking, and that’s something we can’t do in a motion picture script.  In fact, if you have a character telling you how they’re really feeling, that’s really death as far as an independent script goes.

Larry Jordan: How do you read a book and know that it’s going to translate to the big screen?

Bruce Logan:  I think that’s a really hard thing to do.  The structure that you’re looking for for a screenplay is a very definite fixed pattern and you’re looking to see whether that book is going to fit into a motion picture template.  That sounds very restricting in a way, but just those fixed things about a screenplay that you have to do, you have ultimate freedom within that screenplay to do whatever you want.  So in other words, you’re going to read the book and try and find a template that’s going to work for a screenplay, and then you’re going to see if the book fits into it.  I think also great characters are what you’re looking for in a book because they completely translate into the motion picture script.

Larry Jordan:  You’re looking first at the characters, and second at the dialog and then worry about the plot and structure third?

Bruce Logan:  No, I would say you’re looking at the plot and structure first, then you’re looking at the characters and then you’re looking at the dialog.

Larry Jordan:  How do you extract the pertinent points of a book so that the movie will flow in terms of the storyline?

Bruce Logan:  What you find there is that there’s so much information in a book that you’re really looking to distill it down into just the very key information that’s going to make a scene work.  Because a screenplay is only 105 pages, and because it’s spaced and formatted in a certain way, and because when you write it out it’s a minute a page, that distillation process is extremely complicated, but what you find when you’re doing it is that it’s so hard to get the story to flow, that those parts of the book become apparent and you can’t do everything that’s in the book, but you can use that flow of the storyline and the characters and the dialog to make that work.

Larry Jordan:  It’s a challenge of getting rid of everything and keeping the essence?

Bruce Logan:  It is, it’s a bit like the post production process for me where I’ve got all this footage and you join it all together the way it is, and then you take away all the parts that aren’t necessary.  The further you distill it down and you take those parts away, the better it becomes.

Larry Jordan:  Let’s shift gears.  We now have an incredibly brilliant script and we think that the audience is going to like it, so now we’re getting ready to go into production and technology today is running amok with new cameras and recording devices and other gear appearing faster than we can pay for the old stuff.  How important is it to have the latest gear and how much should we obsess about technology?

Bruce Logan:  I think, very little.  I guess that’s easy for me to say being somebody that’s come from technology, but if I can forget that I have a camera on the shoot, that’s the best place to be.  For me, what’s much more important is the glass that I’m going to shoot the movie through.

Larry Jordan:   The lens.

Bruce Logan: The lenses.  I’m much more interested in glass and what the glass does than what the cameras do, and there are so many cameras.  There’s a new camera every month, and they’re all good enough.  To me, it’s to get the camera that’s going to be the easiest ergonomically for you to make the movie, and just try and forget it’s there.

Larry Jordan:  Does the glass really make that much of a difference?

Bruce Logan:  The glass makes a huge difference I think because all sensors are the same, they’re getting better and better and sharper, and film stocks used to have their own characteristics.  With a 4K chip and with the ability to color correct it, and do all the manipulation that you can in post, really the only thing that can make a difference to you in the filmmaking process is the lenses.

Larry Jordan:  We now have our film complete, it’s an incredible story of course, and now we want to tell the world that it exists.  How important are film festivals?

Bruce Logan:  I think film festivals are a double edged sword.  There are a lot of people make genre movies that say you should avoid film festivals because you’re just exposing your picture and really there is a value in nobody having seen your film before when you’re going to sell it.  But if you’re making a non-genre picture, and something that is going to improve with word of mouth, then I think going to a film festival’s very important, and I think it’s an incredibly good route for independent filmmakers to bring their product to market.

Larry Jordan:  Does it cost a lot of money to promote a film at a film festival?

Bruce Logan:  You know, I’m just trying to assess that myself.  I’ve made this beautiful little picture over the last six months called ‘Lost Fare,’ and I’m just about to take that to film festivals, and so I’m evaluating at the moment what the value of doing online promotion, of getting people interested in it, or just taking it as a completely fresh entity and presenting it at a film festival.  I think I’m going the latter route.  We don’t have a website for our movie.  We have IMDb because people have worked on it, but we’re not going to do any advance publicity on the movie, we’re just going to present the movie, and hope it finds its audience.

Larry Jordan:  We’ll check with you after you get this thing launched and see how well that piece of advice works.

Bruce Logan:  OK.

Larry Jordan: I just have a couple more questions before we wrap up.  I don’t know anyone who intentionally makes a bad movie.  But what should we keep in mind to make a good one?

Bruce Logan:   Well that’s absolutely true.  There’s so much energy goes into making a movie, and all the people that are involved, and all the enthusiasm, that it’s actually just as difficult to make a bad movie as it is to make a good movie.  I think that you have to go back to story and you have to go back to your passion for the original idea.  In other words, if you’re thinking that that the audience is going to like this movie, they’re going to love this about it, they’re going to love that about it, that’s not nearly as powerful as the way the story speaks to you and you putting your imprint on that movie.  I think that’s the way that you catch lightning in a bottle, and I think that’s the way really good movies are made.

Larry Jordan:  Bruce, you and I are both on the second half of our career, and normally when I talk to guests I ask them for advice on what a new person should do to get started in filmmaking.  But that advice generally boils down to just get out there and start shooting.

Bruce Logan:   That would be my advice.

Larry Jordan:   So instead, I want to ask you what advice do you have for older filmmakers who need to rekindle their creative spark?

Bruce Logan:   I would say that you should find or create a project for yourself, that speaks to all the passions that you have in life.  We’ve been on the road for a long time, and we know what’s valuable to us and what’s not valuable to us, and if we can make a story that speaks to the values in our life, there’s no guarantee it’s going to be a success, but we certainly have a shot at making something original and a true piece of art.

Larry Jordan:  Bruce, I love your advice, and I have truly admired your work over the years and I want to thank you so much for sharing your time with us.

Bruce Logan:  Thank you Larry.

Larry Jordan:  Bruce Logan is a special effects wizard, an independent filmmaker, and we’ll have him back again to see how his film turns out.  Take care Bruce.

Bruce Logan:  I will, thank you so much Larry.

Larry Jordan:  Writer director editor William Boodell started his professional career as the editor of the instant cult classic, ‘Sharknado.’  Now we want to follow up on what he’s learned since.  Hello Bill, welcome back.

William Boodell:  Hi Larry, thanks for having me.  Great to be back.

Larry Jordan:  Bill, we’re trying to figure out what it takes to make a successful film, so let me start off by asking you how important is the editor to creating a successful film?

William Boodell:  How important is the editor?  It depends on the project of course, but I think that an editor can be extremely important.  It depends on what kind of leeway they’re given to be creative with the material that is shot.  So depending on the relationship of the editor with the director and the director with the producers and how open they are to the feedback, the editor’s role could be either very big, or can be very small.  Sometimes a director will tell an editor exactly what they want, down to the frame, and the editor has to do that, and so they do.  So it just depends.

Larry Jordan:  I know it’s technically possible, but is it a good idea for someone to both direct and edit their film, or does editing require an independent point of view?

William Boodell:   Well that’s a question I ask myself.  I think that the answer is yes, and yes.  I personally like editing my own material, but I also like an objective point of view, so if I’m working on something I would like to have somebody else’s eyes on it as well and maybe co-edit.  Whether I get credit or not.  I think in general people are editing more now because it’s easier to both direct and edit your film, especially if you’re working in the independent sector, and I think that a lot of great things come to that because it’s a singe vision that carries through, sometimes from the writing to the directing to the editing, and that really does come closer to the auteur theory if a single voice is shaping the story.  But sometimes it can also give you problems because you don’t have enough objectivity, and you realize how hard it was to make a certain shot, and you’re in love with that shot and you don’t want to let it go, but you should let it go for the film.  So it really depends on the person and the situation.  I personally prefer to have somebody else’s eyes on it as well, even if I am both directing and editing something.

Larry Jordan:   You just finished directing your own project, what was it?

William Boodell:   I just made my first official short film for the Filmmakers Alliance, called ‘Shootout Two Day Filmmaking Challenge,’ and we shot it two days, turned it in, and it won the competition and we just played our world premiere at Fantasia in Montreal.

Larry Jordan:   Well congratulations.  Is there like a magic button for filmmaking, something you can push that makes a film successful?

William Boodell:   No, unfortunately not.  Or maybe I should say, fortunately not.  No.  I don’t know what makes a film successful, that would be disingenuous of me to pretend that I do.  But I just try to make things that I enjoy.  But when you’re in the editor’s chair, you have less say over that.  You just have to take what you’re given and try to make the best from it, whether you are contributing creatively or whether you’re not allowed to contribute creatively.  When it comes to writing and directing, you definitely should be putting yourself into it as much as you can, and just listening to your own voice and trying to make something that you think you would genuinely enjoy.

Larry Jordan:  What criteria do you use to decide what project to do next?

William Boodell:   Do you mean editing or directing?

Larry Jordan:  We’ll say directing.

William Boodell:  With directing, I just have ideas that come to me, and if they excite me, then that’s what determines whether I want to write it or not.  Because writing can be laborious and you really have to be passionate about it so I just try to imagine scenarios or think of scenes or characters, or themes, that truly interest me, and that move me.  And if it moves me, then I’m sure that it will move somebody else, maybe a lot of people, maybe one other person.  But I know that if it moves me, there’s a good chance it will reach other people.

Larry Jordan: For people who want to see what the latest projects are that are moving you, where can they go on the web?

William Boodell:  My name, Williamboodell.com.

Larry Jordan:  That’s all one word, williamboodell.com and Bill Boodell himself is the voice you’re listening to.  Bill, thanks for joining us today.

William Boodell:  Thank you Larry, it’s a pleasure.

Larry Jordan: Take care bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  Yvonne Russo is an award winning producer, director and writer of film, television and digital projects.  She has produced features such as ‘Akisida,’ ‘The Earth Above,’ ‘Woman Walks Ahead,’ and many others.  Hello Yvonne, welcome back.

Yvonne Russo:  Hi Larry, thank you.

Larry Jordan:  Tonight we’re looking at what makes a successful film, but I want to take a step back.  You’ve executive produced, produced and directed.  How do you compare a successful film to a successful filmmaker?

Yvonne Russo:  I believe what makes a film successful today is when a film creates impact.  A social impact, a conscious impact and creates a larger awareness in terms of what that overall film’s message is.  Because digital and over the top and all these other outlets for streaming has really diluted the marketplace in a big way, so theatrical box office hits aren’t the same any more, and theatrical roll out strategies are not the same anymore, so now when you are producing independent features, even studio features, you have to have an impact. You have to create an impact plan and when you can actually have audiences talking about that film, and what it’s done to create a change, to spark a conversation, to get people actually moving and creating value in everyday life, I think that, to me, is what makes a film successful.  That’s really what I strive for as a producer, and that’s why the stories that I get involved with have to have a larger message.  Shift of consciousness in a way, that’s a catapult for change of greater good.

Yvonne Russo:  Yes, to box office receipts, that’s all good because we’ve got to generate revenue.  We have to make money, but at the same time, I think that people are just really eager to learn through independent film and these stories that we are creating that are a catalyst for change.

Larry Jordan:  If being a catalyst for change makes for a successful film, what makes for a successful filmmaker?

Yvonne Russo:  It’s passion.  First of all, being a filmmaker is not an easy road.  My career has spanned 18 years so far, and I feel like I am still a mid level career producer. And the reason is because, again, it’s the stories that I’m really passionate about that I want to be involved in stories that are going to make the change.  For example, a recent project that I worked on, I worked as advisor on ‘Woman Walks Ahead’ which will be premiering at Toronto and it’s a period epic that stars Jessica Chastain and it’s a story about Catherine Weldon who lived in the 1800s who was a Brooklyn woman, who travelled to the Dakotas to paint the famous Chief Sitting Bull.  It’s a story about Sitting Bull and the Standing Rock Sioux tribe’s resistance against the Forced Allotment Act that was happening during that time.  These are issues and subjects that we don’t often hear about at all.  I think it’s important to shed light on some of these American ethics that have not been told.  What makes being a successful producer, filmmaker advisor is being involved, at least I’ve been involved in stories that are shedding light on subject matters not often seen or heard.

Larry Jordan:  As a producer, you’re balancing a number of different projects at the same time.  How do you set your priorities?

Yvonne Russo:  It’s like having little infants.  Each project is a baby and each project needs that time and energy and nurturement in order to get it on its legs and get it walking and moving in the direction that it needs to go into.  So for myself, it’s really my job as a producer and executive producer to assemble the right team, to attach cast, to find the right director, to basically find the right financing partners, whether they’re with companies or independent individuals that are becoming equity partners.  It’s really assembling this team and honestly there’s just no one way to do it.  You just have to kind of make it happen, and I always say, you know, you have to pick up the phone, you’ve got to do research, you have to pick up the phone, you have to find out who’s working on what, what company would be the best fit for a certain project.  You’ve got to softly pitch, you have to set up meetings, you’ve got to constantly follow up.  You’re always re-writing your scripts, you are always moving the ball forward until finally you get like one hit. Somebody says, “OK yes, I’m in as cast” or you know, you get one financer who says “Yes, I’m in, I believe in this story with you,” and suddenly your team just starts to roll.

Yvonne Russo:   Once you gain that momentum, you just don’t stop, you have to keep going and you have to make it happen, so you have to be relentless and also be extremely passionate about what you do.  There’s so much because each project has such a different voice and a different process.  There’s no one way to do anything.  You have to just figure out what the best way is for yourself.  So it’s like producing is like if you’re creating a house, you need a blueprint and you need the materials and you need the nuts and the bolts and the team, and the money to do it.  So, also for films it’s kind of that same thing, you have a script and you’ve got to bring this story to life.  In order to do it you have to dissect the script, you’ve got to figure out the parts and assemble the team, find the money and start to build it, so there’s no one way.

Yvonne Russo:   I think projects have their own energy and you keep pushing them, but so much of what gets produced today has to do with what’s going on in sort of the larger scale of a global political zeitgeist.  So it’s very interesting.

Larry Jordan:  For people that either want to work with you on your next project or keep track of the projects you’re working on, where can they go on the web?

Yvonne Russo:  They can go to yvonnerusso.com.

Larry Jordan:  That’s yvonnerusso.com, and Yvonne thanks for joining us today.

Yvonne Russo:  Thank you Larry.

Larry Jordan:  I want to introduce you to a new website, Thalo.com.  Thalo is an artist community and networking site for creative people to connect, be inspired and showcase their creativity.  Thalo.com features content from around the world with a global perspective on all things creative.  Thalo is the place for creative folks to learn, collaborate, market and sell their works.  Thalo is a part of Thalo Arts, a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers.  From photography to filmmaking, performing arts to fine arts, and everything in between, Thalo is filled with the resources you need to succeed.  Visit Thalo.com and discover how their community can help you connect, learn and succeed.  That’s Thalo.com.

Larry Jordan:  Nancy Schreiber has worked her way up from production assistant, to director of photography.  She has more than 130 credits in narrative film, television, music videos, commercials and documentaries.  She’s a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, and the fourth woman ever elected to the American Society of Cinematographers.  Hello Nancy, welcome back.

Nancy Schreiber:  Why thank you Larry, good to be back.

Larry Jordan:  It is always a delight talking to you. Tonight, Nancy we’re talking about how to become a successful indie filmmaker.  If somebody asked you “What does it take to be successful?” what would you say?

Nancy Schreiber:  I believe the importance is a passion that in spite of all of the conflicts and all of the no’s that one hears when trying to get a film off the ground, or even just get a foot in the door, you keep going. So if you don’t have that in your makeup, then maybe you should look for another kind of work.

Larry Jordan:   In other words, if you can’t take no constructively, try something different.

Nancy Schreiber:   Exactly.

Larry Jordan:  You’ve worked on a lot of different sets, you’ve worked with a lot of different producers, a lot of different directors.  What are some of the common mistakes that you see inexperienced filmmakers making, from your perspective?

Nancy Schreiber:   First thing is, don’t go into production unless your script is in really great shape.  When you have put all of your resources, your energy, time and money into getting your indie film off the ground, make sure the script is ready.

Larry Jordan:  Why is that so important, because I hear a lot of times about people discovering stuff on set?  Why do I have to have the script locked before I start?

Nancy Schreiber:  Yes, we are open to things happening on set that are unexpected, certainly in my field, you know, natural light hitting something or I can watch people in between takes and I get an idea.  But, and the schedule that we have today, boy oh boy, days are being cut, the budgets are being cut, and you better be organized and put as much as you can on what I call the blackboard which can be erased and changed, but nonetheless you should have your blueprint actually.

Larry Jordan:  What other common mistakes do you see filmmakers make?

Nancy Schreiber:  I am all for making a shot list.  It’s really important, even though actors do change things when they come on set.

Larry Jordan:  I’ve never known that to happen.

Nancy Schreiber:  I like to work with a director and make a shot list and then along with the first AD, make a timetable, because what happens is that you will find that if you put a time to each set up, both in lighting and camera setup and then into the actual shooting of it, you may run into something like an 18 hour day.  We should not work for more than 12 hours a day.  It’s inhumane and people make mistakes.  Generally what’s kept my films on schedule is being realistic about a shot list, being able to combine coverage in an elegant solution, and looking at what the emotional beats are for every scene, and then you will see, do you really need to do ten takes of the big wide master?  Could you just do a couple of takes and then move into different kinds of coverage?  For myself, as a cinematographer, I can keep my grip crew, my camera, and electric crew knowing what’s coming up.

Larry Jordan:  It sounds to me, from all of your comments, that the biggest mistake people tend to make is that they’re not organized?  The script is not organized, the shots are not organized, they don’t have a schedule.  That to me strikes me as the biggest problem that you’re talking about.  Is that true?

Nancy Schreiber:  I would say organization is key.  It’s so terrific when I can work with directors who maybe even have storyboards, although we don’t storyboard all that much except for car chases and action scenes, stunts and so sometimes storyboards are helpful.  But yes, organization, shot lists, going through the script as much as one can in pre-production and making sure that the locations work for what you’re trying to do.

Larry Jordan:  Who sets the emotional tone on a set?

Nancy Schreiber:  Well that’s a great question.  The emotional tone.  It should come from the director, some directors keep a very quiet set and really give the actors space. The first AD’s are often thought of as loud, but the ones I like to work with are forceful in keeping us on schedule but are not aggressively obnoxious, loving to hear the sound of their voice.  So it’s a combination of tone that’s set by the director and the first AD.  In terms of my departments, I like to work on a walkie talkie, so that I’m not screaming across the set and that also helps the emotional tone and the focus.

Larry Jordan:  Put your filmmaking hat on.  What would you say is the biggest challenge when starting a new project?  Is it finding the money, getting the cast, getting the equipment, the crew?

Nancy Schreiber:  I’d say finding the money.  Then, you know, the chicken and before the egg, if you can get a cast member that means something to investors, it can often help get the money.

Larry Jordan:  We seem to be living in an ADD world where shorter is better.  What are audiences looking for today to entertain them?

Nancy Schreiber:  What are audiences looking for?  Well there’s such a choice now, on streaming services, television and I still think people would like the experience of going to a theater, and the dark space, and you’re just involved in the story.  But the challenge is going to be and continues to be for all of us working in independent films, getting people into the theater because unless you have an enormous budget for publicity and advertising, forget it.  It’s just hard to get noticed.  Yes, film festivals do help.  So the problem right now is there’s just so much choice and people don’t have that many hours in the day.

Larry Jordan: For someone wanting to start their first independent project, let’s pretend just because it makes life easier, that they have enough money, and let’s pretend that they’ve got a script because we got to start somewhere.  So you’ve got the money and the script.  What advice would you give to someone to have a successful film?  What should they really focus on before they shoot frame one?

Nancy Schreiber:  I think the most important thing one could do, for me, the director learning the script and the motivation of each character, learning the back story, and also the communication to the cast and crew about his or her vision.  You know, this is really crucial.  Being realistic and knowing that you don’t have all the time in the world, it’s just really important not to be frantic and have a chaotic set.  Once you have a cut, to show it to other people not involved in the film.  This is a pitfall that people are so protective, and they get so involved with their script, and don’t see what they actually got.  I don’t know who said it, but there’s the film you write, the film you shoot and then the film you finish.  And it is often a very different film once the actors come aboard and other situations happen.  So show your rough cut and your fine cut to different audiences, not just your best friends.  Know who your audience is. Is there an audience?  Do you know how to get your film to that audience?  And again that organization and pre-production I can’t stress enough.

Larry Jordan:  Nancy for people that want to get into the business, are their organizations they should touch base with?

Nancy Schreiber:  There are many organizations for those wanting to get into our business, depending on where you live.  If you are in the major cities, Film Independent is based in Los Angeles, but has a broad base around the country.  On the east coast, Independent Feature Project, IFP.  So look on the website for Film Independent or IFP.  If you’re doing documentaries, The International Documentary Association.  And there’s so many websites today, there’s No Film School, they have great online articles. Well, there’s just so many, it’s a great time.  There’s another site that I just ran into called filmmaker.com, rain dance, raindance.com.  It has 13 sites for independent filmmakers.  So there’s just a wealth of information online.

Larry Jordan:  Nancy, for filmmakers that have the great wisdom to want to hire you, to work on their project, where can they go on the web to learn more?

Nancy Schreiber:  Well that’s a great question.  You can find me at www.nancyschreiber.com.

Larry Jordan:  That’s all one word, nancyschreiber.com, and Nancy is an amazing director of photography, and as always, a delight chatting with you Nancy, thank you very much.

Nancy Schreiber:  Larry, thank you so much.

Larry Jordan:  You know, I was just thinking, this week Apple officially announced that Final Cut Studio would no longer be supported in the next version of the Mac operating system, called High Sierra.  Final Cut is what got me started in this business.  First introduced in the spring of 1999, I started using it in 2002, with version 1.2.  That’s back when it was still called Final Cut, the Pro was added years later.  Since that first release, Final Cut has gone through multiple changes, with an entirely new industry springing up around it.  The world we work in today bears almost no resemblance to editing prior to 1990, then shooting video required highly trained crews with complex cameras while editing required massive videotape machines that cost up to a quarter of a million dollars apiece.  Editing film first required shooting expensive film, then working with razor blades and glue to edit the finished product.  Neither technology was easily accessible to beginners, or small budgets.

Larry Jordan:  The introduction of DV cameras and Final Cut changed the world, expanding video creation in areas that no-one predicted.  Video shooting and editing is now easily taught in elementary schools.  Tens of thousands of college students are actively pursuing film careers.  And the world has shifted from print to video, almost overnight. Now the lack of support for Final Cut Studio which includes Final Cut Pro 7, doesn’t mean that any existing copies of the software will stop working, it just means that you won’t be able to upgrade to the latest version of the Mac OS.  As I look around, there are plenty of alternatives to Final Cut 7 which was the program that started it all.  There’s Final Cut Pro X, the Adobe Premiere Pro and Avid Media Composer, to name three of the most popular professional programs, but there’s also imovie, and Clips, which runs on your phone.

Larry Jordan:  Tonight seems a good time to reflect on the impact one software program has had on the lives of so many, from moviegoers to filmmakers, to the countless developers of utilities and plug ins that supported it.  When Final Cut was first released, Apple’s advertising slogan was, “Think different.”  We did, and the world changed because of it.  Final Cut may be dead, yet Final Cut lives on and our industry continues to expand.  We live in interesting times, and as always, let me know what you think.

Larry Jordan:   What I’m struck by in listening to all of our guests, is that the underlying foundation of any successful film is the passion of the filmmaker.  When you care about a project, your audience is more likely to care as well.

Larry Jordan:  I want to thank our filmmakers this evening, Cirina Catania, Bruce Logan, William Boodell, Yvonne Russo, Nancy Schreiber and as always, James DeRuvo with DoddleNEWS.

Larry Jordan:   There’s a lot of history in our industry and it’s all posted to our website, at digitalproductionbuzz.com. Here you’ll find thousands of interviews, all online and all available to you today.  Remember to sign up for our free weekly show newsletter that comes out every Saturday.

Larry Jordan:  Talk with us on Twitter @DPBuzz and Facebook at digitalproductionbuzz.com.

Larry Jordan:   Our theme music is composed by Nathan Dugi-Turner with additional music provided by Smartsound.com.  Text transcripts are provided by Take1 Transcription.  Visit Take1.tv to learn how they can help you.

Larry Jordan:   Our producer is Debbie Price, my name is Larry Jordan, and thanks for listening to The Digital Production Buzz.

Larry Jordan:  The Digital Production Buzz is copyright 2017 by Thalo LLC.

HOST
Larry Jordan

GUESTS
Mathew Gilliat-Smith, CEO, Fortium Technologies
Derick Rhodes, Director, Creator Programs, Vimeo
Ned Soltz, Contributing Editor, Red Shark News, Ned Soltz Inc.
Richard Leonarz, Director of Marketing, Memory and Storage, Samsung Electronics, America
Tad Brockway, General Manager, Microsoft Azure Storage
James DeRuvo, Film and Technology Reporter, DoddleNEWS

==

Larry Jordan: This week on the Buzz, we have a variety of new things to share with you. We start with Mathew Gilliat-Smith, the CEO of Fortium Technologies. They’ve developed a method to keep your media files secure, even as they move from edit station, to edit station during post-production and, best of all, their system is affordable.

 

Larry Jordan: Next, Ned Soltz joins us with a preview of what to expect next month at IBC; new cameras, new gear and new emerging trends that we need to watch. Next, Vimeo is well known as a distribution site for filmmakers; but Vimeo offers us far more. Tonight, we talk with Derick Rhodes, the Director of Creator Programs for Vimeo, about some of their filmmakers, as well as their new support for 360 VR.

 

Larry Jordan: Next, when it comes to storage, we always want faster performance. This week, Richard Leonarz, Director of Marketing, Memory and Storage for Samsung Electronics America, describes their latest announcement s of new high speed flash drives. Next, Microsoft Azure is one of the big four Cloud storage and service suspenders; but, it is often the one least talked about. Tonight, Tad Brockway, General Manager for Microsoft Azure joins us, to explain what Azure is, how filmmakers can use it and what Microsoft does to keep our data secure.

 

Larry Jordan: All this, plus James DeRuvo with our weekly DoddleNEWS update. The Buzz starts now.

 

Male Voiceover: Since the dawn of digital filmmaking. Authoritative: One show serves a worldwide network of media professionals. Current: Uniting industry experts. Production: Filmmakers: Post-production and Content Creators around the planet: Distribution. From the media capital of the world, in Los Angeles, California, the Digital Production Buzz goes live now.

 

Larry Jordan: And welcome to the Digital Production Buzz; the world’s longest running podcast, for the creative content industry, covering media production, post-production and marketing around the world. Hello, my name is Larry Jordan. Tonight’s show covers a variety of subjects, all revolving around new tools for filmmakers. Increasingly, given the almost daily news of hacks and stolen programs, we’re looking for ways to improve our security.

 

Larry Jordan: Two guests tonight speak directly to that issue; Mathew Gilliat-Smith and Tad Brockway. Mathew has products that protect our data as it moves from place to place; while Tad provides a safe place to store our data, yet still make it available for collaboration.

 

Larry Jordan: Two days ago, Samsung announced new faster SSD drives that connect to both Macs and PCs. Tonight, we talk with Richard Leonarz about these new drives. I’m especially interested in learning what hardware we need to be able to take full advantage of the speed these devices can deliver.

 

Larry Jordan: Many filmmakers are turning to Vimeo to distribute their movies and help them make money while doing so. Tonight, Derick Rhodes explains why Vimeo is a better choice than YouTube for filmmakers and showcasing some of their new 360 VR tools. And I always look forward to talking with Ned Soltz about camera technology and trends; especially with IBC just around the corner. Now is a perfect time to prepare ourselves for the next round of technology, as IBC resets our industry.

 

Larry Jordan: And thinking of staying current, it’s time for a DoddleNEWS update with James DeRuvo. Hello James.

 

James DeRuvo: Larry, it’s been so long since I talked to you.

 

Larry Jordan: I know, I know, we will ignore the staff meeting of two hours ago. It is good to hear your voice and what’s the news today?

 

James DeRuvo: Oh poor HBO, they got hacked.

 

Larry Jordan: Oh no.

 

James DeRuvo: Anonymous hackers broke into HBO’s servers and released episodes of ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm,’ Dwayne Johnson’s ‘Ballers’ and an unnamed series that’s not scheduled to come out until 2018. Then, to make matters worse, they also got a terabyte of inner studio communication, personal information on company employees and they even took over their social media account. It’s just a mess.

 

Larry Jordan: Well, in addition to the hack, James, didn’t HBO suffer last week from a self-inflicted wound?

 

James DeRuvo: Yes they did. To make matters worse, HBO Spain accidentally released episode six of this season’s ‘Game of Thrones,’ a week before it was supposed to come out. It was only up for an hour, but that was long enough; now it’s all over the internet via Bit Torrent. While streaming is an exciting new revenue stream Larry, the danger that comes with hackers gaining access could make studios have to work harder to protect their IP.

 

Larry Jordan: We’re going to be talking about that with one of our guests today; so that story is extremely timely. What else we got?

 

James DeRuvo: Well, speaking of streaming, it’s going to be streaming Thursday. Apple has committed over $1 billion to create original content. They’ve gotten some really great feedback for their two first original series, ‘Carpool Karaoke’ and ‘Planet of the App’ and now they’ve made several high profile hirer’s of Sony Television Executives and a Cable Executive from WGN; all who will oversee the … for development through Apple’s LA offices and they plan to create up to ten original series TV. We don’t know if they’re going to continue to offer it through Apple Music, or if they’re going to launch their own streaming service.

 

Larry Jordan: It’s interesting. Apple announced $1 billion, Netflix announced $6 billion for local programming. From Netflix’s point of view, what do you think Apple’s plans are?

 

James DeRuvo: Well, global domination of course. They want to double their revenues to $50 billion by 2020 and so, even though Apple failed to secure a live streaming service at Broadcast Television, like they were planning a couple of years ago, they decided just to move on. But the big challenge is going to be that, you know, now we have all of these streaming services; everybody has a subscription service and there are over 500 scripted programs in development for the current year. But there’s just not enough time to watch everything. Then, on top of that, due to the fragmented nature of streaming services, core cutters are going to end up spending more, not less, to get their entertainment needs and that makes the piece of the video streaming pie become ever smaller, in order to compete for those ad dollars.

 

Larry Jordan: Okay, that’s HBO and Apple. What’s our third story this week?

 

James DeRuvo: Well, good news for GoPro. They had their second quarter earnings call this week and they reported that they only had a loss of $30 million for the quarter. When you consider that they lost over 300 million last year, losing 30 million means a nice little upswing in sales. They also reported that the GoPro Karma Drone is the number two bestselling drone on the market and the Hero 5 is the highest selling camera period; so, things are looking up for GoPro.

 

Larry Jordan: In addition to reducing expenses, have they saved any money?

 

James DeRuvo: They have. By simplifying GoPro’s camera line, they dropped it down to just three models; the Hero 5, the Hero 5 Black and the Hero 5 Session. By doing that and cutting their workforce, GoPro has managed to save $70 million in operating expenses. That cost-saving measure, plus increased sales driven by the Karma and the Hero 5, that means GoPro has probably turned things around and, with the Fusion camera coming out soon, things are looking rosy.

 

Larry Jordan: Well, I want GoPro to do well, so this is good news. What other stories are we following this week?

 

James DeRuvo: Now, other stories we’re following this week include, you know, MediaPass, that all you can launch movie theatre subscription; they dropped their subscription rate to $10 a month; so you can go to one movie a day for 30 days and only pay ten bucks.

 

Larry Jordan: Wow.

 

James DeRuvo: An incredible deal. But unfortunately, A&C is angry and they’re going to be threatening legal action and try and get out of their agreement with them. Nikon, speaking of self-inflicted wounds, accidentally leaked their own specs on the D850 this week and Netflix isn’t going to let Disney go without a fight.

 

Larry Jordan: And James, where can we go for the latest on all of this news?

 

James DeRuvo: All these stories and more can be found at doddlenews.com.

 

Larry Jordan: And James DeRuvo is the Senior Writer for DoddleNEWS and joins us every week with the latest on what’s happening in our industry. James, thanks for joining us today.

 

Larry Jordan: Here’s another website I want to introduce you to, doddlenews.com. DoddleNEWS gives you a portal into the broadcast, video and film industries. It’s a leading online resource; presenting news, reviews and products for the film and video industry. DoddleNEWS also offers a resource guide and crew management platform specifically designed for production. These digital call sheets, along with their App, directory and premium listings provide in-depth organisational tools for busy production professionals.

 

Larry Jordan: DoddleNEWS is a part of the Thalo Arts community; a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers. From photography, to filmmaking, performing arts, to fine arts and everything in between, Thalo is filled with the resources you need to succeed. Whether you want the latest industry news, need to network with other creative professionals, or require state of the art online tools to manage your next project; there’s only one place to go, doddlenews.com.

 

Larry Jordan: Mathew Gilliat-Smith is Co-Founder and CEO of Fortium Technologies, which he started in 1999. Fortium provides digital content production solutions for the film, entertainment and broadcast industries. Hello Mathew, welcome.

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Hello.

 

Larry Jordan: Why did you start Fortium?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Well, we actually started the company about 16 years ago, with the remits of helping companies to manage content. In those days we were actually doing identification of image material and about ten to 12 years ago we got involved with the film and TV studios, in terms of managing digital content particularly in the pre-release space. There was an increasing requirement, when people had seen the issues facing the industry with digitized content, of security and we worked closely with film studios to develop solutions that help them to lock down content.

 

Larry Jordan: Now, when you say lock down content, what does that mean?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: To put it into perspective in today’s terms, when you’re working in pre-release or post-production, there are multiple parties, multiple people and there’s faster workflows and really we’re talking about access control. We’re trying to enable people to do their jobs and to do it in a seamless way; without any delays etc. But, as we can see from the news wireless and all the issues that happen with leaks, you need to make sure that content can’t accidentally escape and also that you’re protected against somebody’s malware threats that we’re reading about.

 

Larry Jordan: Well it seems to me almost impossible to balance security, which means, lock it up on a computer, put it in a closet and disconnect it from the web, with accessibility, where you want to do exactly the opposite. How do you balance these two competing challenges?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Well it was interesting. A number of years ago, one of the studios we worked with was NBC Universal and they had an MPA audit which had been undertaken and showed they had very robust systems in place. But the one area of vulnerability was actually in the area when you’re on the sound stage and you’re doing your dubbing, you are having to work with content but, you know, at that time be working with it sort of in the clear. You have the full motion picture as a reference file and then you’re doing the audio dubs on top of it. The danger is, that content is vulnerable. We had to find a way in order to provide access control to the content in a way that it was locked to individual approved recipients.

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Typically, you might be in a studio and there could be, you know, several people who all have access to the server; but you want to make sure only the people who you want to have access can do so. Without getting too technical, we had to build a driver based solution; which is actually called ‘MediaSeal.’ What it does is a handoff to the professional editing program, in order to make that control. Now you might ask, well, why was that necessary? Aren’t there plenty of tools out there to do that? The answer is no. The issue is, because, professional editing programs have to have unfettered access to the content; so you might be dealing with a ProRes file and if you put encryption on it, the program won’t recognise it; it’ll just see it as a file it can’t recognise. We had to build a system that could do the handoff from the actual encrypted file to the program; that is reading the file back.

 

Larry Jordan: Now, let me see if I’ve got this straight. What you did is, you developed sort of a middle ware where the file is stored on the server in encrypted form; in real time it flows through your drivers, it’s decrypted and fed over to the editing system for editing; then, as it flows back to the server, the middle ware grabs it and re-encrypts it and puts it on the server?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: More or less, yes. There’s different scenarios, but that’s pretty much it. The issue really is making sure that, only the person that you have identified who should have access can get access. The access control we’re talking about is done in a number of different ways; but, basically it’s multiple types of authentication; so that it’s not just a password, it’s not just a key, it’s multiple points, including remote authentication. Such that, the person who has encrypted the file can revoke access, even after it has been sent. On top of that, there’s a full audit log of who accesses content when and where.

 

Larry Jordan: The mind boggles at the amount of authentication that’s going on and the ability to revoke privileges after they’ve already been granted is just really cool. But, traditionally, encryption slows things down to the point where you can’t do media editing, because there’s too much of a performance hit. How do you avoid that?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Very good question. That was one of the main stipulations of producing the software, was to ensure there was no noticeable hit on performance. It took a long time to perfect it. In every correct instance, where MediaSeal is installed, you won’t notice the hit and it’s the way it has been developed, in order to work in these production workflows. You know, everybody has a different workflow, a different scenario; but we do absolutely understand the stresses and the trials of post-production and the speed of turnaround; so we are very, very receptive to making sure that the software rolls out smoothly. If something doesn’t go according to plan, you know, it probably isn’t to do with us, but we’re going to be the first line of fire. We work, you know, round the clock to make sure we help those post-production people, you know, get out of the hole they’re in and it’s absolutely been designed by a film studio for studio workflows.

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: We can’t take the credit for the way it was designed, we do take the credit for the strength of security and I would really recommend that people, in this current environment of heightened security threats, that they start using it. Because, making sure your network is secure is fine, but we know that networks get penetrated all the time and we’re reading about it every week now. The point is, if your content is encrypted as well, if the network is breached, God forbid, then the content won’t be able to be accessed to the extent that, you know, they can try and take the encrypted file, but they can’t do anything with it; to release it or hold you to ransom. Therefore, I would really encourage companies to look very seriously at this as a really essential additional layer of protection that they should use.

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: If you think about it as an encryption wrap-up, meaning a wrap around a file, there’s no huge amounts of data involved and it really is putting a wrapper that, if you have the right authentication, it unlocks it straightaway and so there’s no overhead involved.

 

Larry Jordan: You’re not actually changing the media file, you’re changing the package the media file is stored in?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Correct, correct and that was the only way we found that we could do it, without having this overhead hit. Basically, with the way MediaSeal works, it recognises the program that’s accessing the file. If there’s a new program that we’ve never heard of before, you know, very occasionally we will have to tweak the software to do that. But MediaSeal has been in play now for four or five years and, you know, it works very smooth. That is, as I say, the most important thing, is that the person who is accessing the file, who may not be that technical, all they’re going to see is one method of authentication; whereas, those several methods of authentication going on in the background.

 

Larry Jordan: Is MediaSeal your product, or is MediaSeal a sort of certification of the workflow?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: It is the name of our product. I suppose, to put it into content, the MPAA, sets out a load of guidelines for, you know, the way that studios should work. Two of the key points it raises is, one, content should be encrypted in motion and, two, it should be encrypted at rest. MediaSeal, basically, allows you to encrypt it in motion, although there’s plenty of tools that do that; for example, in fast file transfer, companies like Aspera and Signiant do that. But once the content is received at the other end, generally it will become in the clear, unless it has been MediaSeal encrypted; and so we continue the encryption all the way through the workflow. You receive a file, you open it, it remains encrypted, you know, you do your editing work, it’ll re-encrypt it and it continues that encryption all the way through to the point of airing.

 

Larry Jordan: Who’s the sweet spot for this; as a customer?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: You know, it’s been designed that it is for the one man band, right up to the big major studio. The way we’ve done it is a per user, per month pricing model; so that, if you are one person and you’re sharing a file with two or three other people, it’s really going to be just dollars per user, per month and that’s active users per user, per month. Whereas, you know, it may be a production. One of the movies that’s just come out, for example, might have it on the aspect of doing international localization; you know, international translation dubbing and there may be 100 users working on it. It can scale very small to very large and we change the pricing model to make it work like that.

 

Larry Jordan: Just to ask the obvious question, what is the starting point for a small shop getting started?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: $59 per user, per month.

 

Larry Jordan: $59?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: That’s right. If it was literally one user, it would be $59 per user, per month. But, you know, multiply that to ten or 20 or what have you. It’s really not expensive. Clearly, if you’re using a lot of it, then it does add up; but that’s how we do the model now.

 

Larry Jordan: Well, I’m very impressed, because, normally security is like $100,000 word and $59 is a term that I can wrap my brain around.

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: We found that we needed to change the pricing model, because, while we did have a pricing model that was along those lines to start with, it was difficult to get traction and, you know, while some studios, who I’m sure don’t mind me mentioning their names, like FilmNation, for example, on ‘Fear of the Walking Dead,’ they said that they felt that a pricing model that was monthly or annual subscription would work much better for them, rather than having to acquire, you know, the whole asset in itself. That’s why we went down that road.

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: For the independents, the small shops that need to do content split up for a month or three months or what have you, it just makes it something that they can absorb quite easily.

 

Larry Jordan: What do we need to get this to work?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: It’s pretty straightforward. You hit our website, mediaseal.com and we provide a quick questionnaire of what your system is, what files you’re working with and then we get you registered. Typically people will use an ilock, which is fairly standard in post-production and you get registered for that. Then we provide the software, you know, you pay the fee and you’re set up to install and apply it to the number of users that you need. You can be up and running, you know, really in a matter of hours.

 

Larry Jordan: The thing I like about the monthly rental is that, we pay the money when we’re in post, but when the job is done, we don’t have ongoing fees; except, how do we get our assets back, so we can access them safe for archiving purposes, when a project is done?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Basically, you’re installing the software on your server and you are in total control of what’s going on. The keys are resident with you and so you’re in total control of that. If the person that’s doing the encrypting has sent the content elsewhere and you want to make the content unprotected, at a certain point in time, there’s a feature in MediaSeal that enables you to do that.

 

Larry Jordan: For people that want more information, where can they go on the web?

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: www.mediaseal.com.

 

Larry Jordan: That’s all one word, mediaseal.com and Mathew Gilliat-Smith is the Co-Founder and CEO of Fortium Technologies, which invented MediaSeal and, Mathew, thanks for joining us today.

 

Mathew Gilliat-Smith: Thank you.

 

Larry Jordan: Ned Soltz is an Author, Editor, Educator and Consultant on all things related to digital video. He’s also a Contributing Editing for Creative Planet and Red Shark News and best of all, he’s a regular here on the Buzz. Hello Ned, welcome back.

 

Ned Soltz: Hello Larry, it’s very good to be back and welcome to all those who are listening to us tonight.

 

Larry Jordan: It is always fun having you on; it’s like a cracker barrel conversation about all things related to media. I enjoy that.

 

Ned Soltz: Oh indeed, indeed.

 

Larry Jordan: Ned, IBC is approaching, what are you expecting to be showcased?

 

Ned Soltz: Well, I’m expecting just a general growth in where we’ve been; probably not too many new camera introductions. I wouldn’t be surprised, on the high end, if we actually see something about Sony as a full-frame camera, that they were teasing at Cine Gear. But, of course, that really is the extreme high end of things. What I’m really hoping to see, in the camera world, is more details about the Panasonic AU-EVA1. I think that has tremendous potential; I’ve seen one writer that talks about it as being a shot fired across the bow of Sony and Canon and Blackmagic. I think they have a lot going for them with this camera and I’m hoping that, at IBC, we see more of that in action.

 

Ned Soltz: I think, as well, we’re probably going to see ongoing development in lighting. NAB was excellent this year in terms of further development of LED technologies on the high end; the options for the ARRI SkyPanel; down to lower end options that actually are basically obsoleting Kino Flo’s fluorescence at this point. So I think there are a couple of things that I have my eye on for IBC.

 

Larry Jordan: Well, given your comments, does this mean that the pace of camera innovation is slowing down?

 

Ned Soltz: I think the pace of camera innovation is slowing to the extent that probably the market is slowing. I don’t want to say market saturation, but I think Sony understood that very well, for example, in trying to grow some very long legs on their F5 and F55s and the FS7; even with the little FS72. People aren’t necessarily buying and investing in new cameras; they want to know that they can keep these things a few years and with ongoing firmware updates, that they may be able to realistically get several years out of a camera.

 

Ned Soltz: We may see growth in firmware and other options added to the extent of the cameras, but I doubt we’re going to be seeing the spate and flurry of new cameras that we’re used to and that’s really a good thing.

 

Larry Jordan: It is a very good thing, because I’d like to be able to pay for the camera that I’ve already got.

 

Ned Soltz: Absolutely.   Even with paid software updates, that some cameras might have, it still is a worthwhile investment; much more so than buying a new camera.

 

Larry Jordan: Panasonic seems to be making a comeback. What are your thoughts?

 

Ned Soltz: Oh they absolutely are; I mean, they were sort of a sleeping giant for a few years. The GH5 made quite a splash in the mirrorless camera range. I haven’t edited any footage from it yet, but from what I’ve heard from people that have actually worked with the footage, it’s quite nice; in the fact that you’ve got internal 422 10-bit and that’s transferred now over to this EVA1; which I think for a $7,500 price point, really is the Indi camera to be looking at right now.

 

Larry Jordan: Last week on the show, we talked about artificial intelligence. What are your thoughts on AI’s role in or impact on editing?

 

Ned Soltz: You know, I read a lot about that and I hear a lot about that and I suspect artificial intelligence is plausible and possible in the editing world. But still, I worry about the loss of human creativity. I don’t know whether we are anywhere near the point where artificial intelligence algorithms can be written to mimic the creativity of the other human mind. I suspect, artificial intelligence and editing will effectively be a reflection of the individuals or group that program the AI to begin with. I don’t want to see it in editing.

 

Ned Soltz: I’d love to see it in lighting; I’d love to be able to set up some lights and say, light this thing and give me nice soft light on the subject; a little bit of a shadow and some separation for the background and my lights do it. That, I think, has a real application on artificial intelligence; but never in editing, no.

 

Larry Jordan: Our Director of Photography would probably disagree with you.

 

Ned Soltz: The Editor and the Shooter right, yes.

 

Larry Jordan: What we’re hearing is that editing is not probably going to be affected, but logging and puling selects and transcripts and the Assistant Editor is probably going to be.

 

Ned Soltz: That has some possibilities for sure. Logging, I think, definitely; artificial intelligence is going to be an appropriate technological development; particularly in terms of logging collection and analysis of metadata.

 

Larry Jordan: All things to keep an eye on. Ned, for people who want to keep track of your latest writings, where can they go on the web?

 

Ned Soltz: Well, they can look at creativeplanetnetwork.com, or they could look at redsharknews.com and there are lots of writing samples out there.

 

Larry Jordan: Redshark, all one word?

 

Ned Soltz: Redshark, all one word, redsharknews.com.

 

Larry Jordan: Ned Soltz is the Contributing Editor for Red Shark and, Ned, thanks for joining us today.

 

Ned Soltz: Good to be with you tonight.

 

Larry Jordan: Take care, bye-bye.

 

Larry Jordan: A Brooklyn based filmmaker, Derick Rhodes, has spent much of his career focused on emerging technologies and video. Currently, Derick is the Director of Creator Programs at Vimeo. Hello Derick, welcome.

 

Derick Rhodes: Hello Larry, thanks for having me.

 

Larry Jordan: What’s your role with Vimeo?

 

Derick Rhodes: I’m the Director of Creator Programs, which is kind of an umbrella term for a couple of different parts of the business; so it’s the Events Team and the Video Production Team and then the curation side of Vimeo. That’s kind of the umbrella of my role.

 

Larry Jordan: That’s events, video production and the creation program. What’s events?

 

Derick Rhodes: Events is basically all of the public facing, like trade shows and, you know, conferences, meet ups and that sort of thing that are involved. Whatever we’re doing, like South by Southwest and Sundance; so that side of Vimeo’s presence publicly I’m responsible for.

 

Larry Jordan: And video production?

 

Derick Rhodes: Video production is basically all of our in-house work on the video side; so marketing videos and ads that are all about Vimeo; interviews and content for the blog and for other social channels and that sort of thing. But basically all of our in-house production.

 

Larry Jordan: And curation?

 

Derick Rhodes: Finally, curation is the team that basically looks through, you know, the mountain of videos that come onto the site every day and decides on which ones of those can quality and be staff picked. You probably know our staff picked program is one of the cornerstones of Vimeo and the emphasis on quality in the community that’s kind of built up a pretty big following over the years. That’s a lofty goal for a lot of filmmakers, is to get their own staff pick and be part of that team’s, you know, attention.

 

Larry Jordan: Our audience is primarily filmmakers. What should they know about partnering with Vimeo and the underlying question that I want to get to next is, why Vimeo and not YouTube?

 

Derick Rhodes: I think, as far as partnering with Vimeo goes, I mean, one of the things I’d like to say and make sure people understand is that, Vimeo is much more than a place just to publish your work. The community that has been built up at Vimeo over time, since we launched, has really become like one of the strongest and most kind of professional oriented communities for getting feedback and interacting with other folks; from a higher end kind of world, on the internet for video.

 

Derick Rhodes: The thing that first drew me to Vimeo was kind of a combination of that; so being able to post my work and get, you know, meaningful, insightful, like, critical feedback from other professionals; but then also the curation and the work that I was seeing featured kind of spoke to me in a way that, you know, you just don’t see on other sites. I mean, there’s a focus on quality, both technically with the player and the other tools we release; but then, from my perspective it’s just a more serious domain. The conversations that you have on Vimeo are very different than you would see on some of these other platforms.

 

Larry Jordan: But YouTube is the 800 pound gorilla; delivers 800 billion viewers every nanosecond. Why should we even bother with Vimeo, if we’re trying to reach an audience?

 

Derick Rhodes: From my perspective, one of the biggest things is about quality; so, you can have a gigantic massive audience and that might not be a very qualified audience, it might be people that are very casually viewing your work and you can also have an audience that’s much more in line or in tune with the work that you’re doing. Reaching an audience that’s more like in line with what I’m interested in and that is more interested in my work, in terms of aesthetics and storytelling and, you know, is relating to what I’m doing in a more kind of artful way, perhaps.

 

Derick Rhodes: I know people that use YouTube a lot; a lot of times it’s sort of a younger demographic; you know, like, I have a 12 year old who’s totally a YouTube nerd. But, I think the overall quality of the videos and the quality of the interactions is just vastly different. One of the more obvious ways that I could point out is just the advertisements on YouTube content. I mean, Vimeo’s a place where we really prioritize and focus on quality and so you won’t see those distracting ads while you’re watching Vimeo videos; it’s really about the work. I think, for filmmakers that take their work seriously, that’s really important.

 

Larry Jordan: How does a filmmaker make money on Vimeo?

 

Derick Rhodes: There are a couple of ways. You know, we have a video on demand platform, where filmmakers that post their work and publish it there and license it to viewers take home 90% of the revenue and they can set their own prices on that platform. That’s really one of the more direct ways. What I see happen a lot more though, to be honest, with people that I interact with is that, people post their work to Vimeo and it’s such a rich and quality focused group of filmmakers that, a lot of people find that they’re approached by companies, whether it’s brands, pretty soon their own commercials or someone needing a shooter or an animator for a project, they’re being active on Vimeo. That’s not just people getting staffed picked, but people that, you know, use their Vimeo account almost as like their calling card, as a professional in the industry.

 

Derick Rhodes: They’ll publish and feature the videos that they like and that they think best show their work and for kind of serious professionals in their production space, Vimeo is really a destination for finding that work and connecting with those creators. I hear all the time about people getting commercial projects and other film projects based on relationships built on Vimeo.

 

Larry Jordan: Recently, at NAB, which was just a couple of months ago, but seems like a lifetime, Vimeo announced some new VR 360 technology. What did you guys announce?

 

Derick Rhodes: Right, so we announced support, for the first time, for 360 video. You know, we weren’t necessarily the first in there, but I think, the focus was really making sure that our player was at a quality level that distinguished us from what’s available out there in the rest of the world. You know, our privacy tools on the site really let people control who gets to see their video. What we heard from our community was that, especially for 360 projects, they needed a way to share with clients, in a higher quality than what they were seeing elsewhere, you know, that 360 project and getting feedback through a password protected environment; which is something that we offer.

 

Derick Rhodes: Also, our transcoding is always two paths for 360; which just ensure like a different kind of quality level. We take up to 8K uploads and, you know, we’re seeing really quick adoption of 360 on Vimeo. We have a channel dedicated to featuring that work, we’ve had multiple 360 staff picks; so I think our community was making it clear that they wanted support for 360 and, from the growth we’ve seen so far, I don’t see that slowing down any time soon, as far as the demand and people using it in their workflow.

 

Larry Jordan: For filmmakers that want to learn more about the tools and technology that’s available through Vimeo, where do they go on the web?

 

Derick Rhodes: The best place to go is just to the main site, to vimeo.com. If people want to dive into more of like a tutorial or a behind the scenes kind of content, then they can go to vimeo.com/blog and that’s the best place to get started. You’ll see, you know, our staff picks are very up and front right there and it’s easy to kind of get a feel for the latest features that we’ve launched in our pro and business accounts there.

 

Larry Jordan: That website is vimeo.com and Derick Rhodes is the Director of Creator Programs at Vimeo and Derick, thanks for joining us today.

 

Derick Rhodes: Thanks so much for having me Larry.

 

Larry Jordan: Richard Leonarz is the Director of Marketing for Memory and Storage at Samsung Electronics. In this role, he serves as the primary US spokesperson for solid state drives in the business to business channel. Hello Richard, welcome.

 

Richard Leonarz: Hello Larry, thank you so much for having me.

 

Larry Jordan: Oh, it is my pleasure. Let’s get right to the exciting news. What did Samsung just announce?

 

Richard Leonarz: We just announced our latest portable storage called the T5. This is now the third generation of our award-winning line-up; like a very small form factor drive; it’s about the size of a business card. A little bit lighter, of course, using solid state flash memory; so it’s very fast. Because there’s no moving parts, it’s secure, robust. If you drop it, you don’t have to worry about your data being lost and it has encryption too. We know the content creators are careful with their images and videos they take, they don’t want anybody having access to those; so you can put password protection and the internal one has access to your information.

 

Larry Jordan: Let’s talk about encryption for a second. What kind of a performance is there if we’re encrypting and decrypting media files?

 

Richard Leonarz: Well the nice thing with the storage device we have in here, the encryption is done on the device itself; so it’s a self-encrypting drive. That means, there’s no performance loss. After data goes through what’s called the controller, it’s encrypting on the fly; there’s no compression needed on the storage; so there’s no loss in data feed as you’re encrypting the data.

 

Larry Jordan: So it’s encrypting it but not compressing it?

 

Richard Leonarz: Correct.

 

Larry Jordan: How fast is it?

 

Richard Leonarz: The speed on this, it’s a USB device, so it’s about 540 megabytes per second. This would be four times faster than a spinning disk hard drive and it’s actually about 20% faster than our previous generation. This is using the USB 3.1; the Gen Two; so it’s ten gigabit per second … on the device.

 

Larry Jordan: If we don’t have the type C connector, that little flat panel that came out recently on Macintosh’s, can we use this on USB Gen One devices and does it work?

 

Richard Leonarz: Absolutely, it’s backwards compatible; so if you have a Gen One, Gen Two or, of course, a Gen Three, you can use it on any one. We include the cables with the device; so there’s both a USB, two USB A’s and a USB C connector; so, if you have an older device, you can still plug it into that. Now one nice thing too is that, you can plug this into an Android phone as well and then you can nano-encryption and move files off your Android phone onto the device.

 

Richard Leonarz: Currently we don’t have an iOS software option for it, but there’s always development going on and I could see that happening at some point in the future.

 

Larry Jordan: With the SSD, can we use these for long-term storage? Can we unplug them, put them on the shelf and expect our data to be there in a year or two?

 

Richard Leonarz: For most of these devices yes, the data for these type of storage would be about a year retention. We recommend, always plug it in, giving a little bit of power and then we can continue to extend this for another year. Plus, later and later time as well. Any device is going to require some sort of maintenance to it; either spinning disks need to be exercised and powered through them. Tape storage also needs to be maintained properly. It’s similar to most other storage devices, you don’t just set it and forget it, you do need to go back and … and make sure you’re adding energy to this device.

 

Larry Jordan: What capacities does this support?

 

Richard Leonarz: This new version, starting line is 250 gig, going all the way up to two terabytes.

 

Larry Jordan: 250 gig to two terabytes and for people that want more information, where can they go on the web to learn more?

 

Richard Leonarz: Sure, it’s very simple. They can go to samsung.com/T5.

 

Larry Jordan: The voice you’re listening to is Richard Leonarz, the Director of Marketing for Memory and Storage at Samsung and, Richard, thanks for joining us today.

 

Richard Leonarz: It’s a lot of fun, thank you Larry.

 

Larry Jordan: Take care, bye-bye.

 

Larry Jordan: I want to introduce you to a new website, thalo.com. Thalo is an artists community and networking site for creative people to connect, be inspired and showcase their creativity. Thalo.com features content from around the world, with a global perspective on all things creative. Thalo is the place for creative folks to learn, collaborate, market and sell their works. Thalo is a part of Thalo Arts, a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers; from photography to filmmaking; performing arts, to fine arts; and everything in between. Thalo is filled with the resources you need to succeed. Visit thalo.com and discover how their community can help you connect, learn and succeed. That’s thalo.com

 

Larry Jordan: Tad Brockway is a 19 year veteran of Microsoft and currently the General Manager for Microsoft Azure Storage; which is the core data durability service for the Microsoft Azure Cloud. Hello Tad, welcome.

 

Tad Brockway: Hello, thanks for having me Larry.

 

Larry Jordan: How would you describe Microsoft Azure Storage?

 

Tad Brockway: Yes, sure, good question. First of all, how about if I start with, what is Microsoft Azure?

 

Larry Jordan: Alright, start with that.

 

Tad Brockway: Microsoft Azure is Microsoft’s public Cloud platform and it enables customers to host their data, their applications, their services and Microsoft then is responsible for managing the servers, virtual machines, network, all the infrastructure associated with making their applications and services run well; so that customers don’t have to worry about the details of posting their own IT as much anymore, their own servers and all those kinds of things. It enables and empowers customers to focus on their business, rather than some of the details that they’ve historically had to worry about in IT.

 

Larry Jordan: Given your description, there’s four big Cloud services vendors; there’s Amazon, Google, IBM and Microsoft. Seeing as all four could give almost exactly the same definition you gave, why should we consider Azure?

 

Tad Brockway: Great question. The Azure platform and, I would say, Microsoft’s position in the public Cloud market, we view ourselves as being the Cloud platform that meets customers where they are, in their transformation to the Cloud. As you know, I’m sure, our history as a company is in developing and delivering platform and product solutions for customers, for traditional enterprise IT. Microsoft is just part of our DNA and culture and the way that we work, that, we know how to work with enterprise customers and to meet their needs.

 

Tad Brockway: As we think about this new transformation into Cloud, which is impacting all customers in a fairly dramatic way over time, we think that we’re the best vendor to help customers through that transformation, in a way that factors in their existing requirements, as well as where they want to go into the future.

 

Tad Brockway: We contrast our approach with some of our competitors in that regard, in that some of our competitors tend to bring the Cloud to the customer on their terms, rather than on the customer terms; where we come in and we deliver by virtue of our existing platforms and services that already run in customer data centres and then bridging those platforms into our cloud in a pretty seamless manner and delivering in a form that we call hybrid cloud.

 

Larry Jordan: Hybrid Cloud, meaning?

 

Tad Brockway: Hybrid Cloud, meaning that, a customer’s existing enterprise IT assets; their own data centres, their own servers, their own networking, their own security, being able to connect that type of IT environment into our public Cloud platform in a way; so that their applications can run in the public Cloud. Or they can run on Prim in the customer’s data centres and then all of that can be wired up securely through our networking infrastructure and services; so that it appears to the customer as one shared and single IT environment.

 

Larry Jordan: I accept that Microsoft has managed to get enterprise IT departments to join them at the hip; I’m amazed at how tightly the two of you work together. But the lens that the show views through is the independent filmmaker and the small production house; that’s generating terabytes of data, but does not necessarily have its own IT department. If you don’t have an IT department, should we even consider working with Azure?

 

Tad Brockway: Absolutely, it’s a great point. When we think about the notion of traditional IT, that also applies to small and medium businesses; because, even small and medium businesses will frequently work with a service provider to provide that traditional IT capability. Our ecosystem includes big customers, big enterprise customers who have their own data centre; it also includes the massive universe of providers who have data centres or specific verticals like media, for instance. From my perspective, that’s all just included in the overall way that we think about our value proposition.

 

Larry Jordan: One of the other things that media folks are desperately concerned with, especially given the release of ‘Games of Thrones’ and HBO’s hacking is, how do we keep our data secure? How does Microsoft make sure that our data doesn’t leak?

 

Tad Brockway: This is certainly a topic that is top of mind for our customers; especially in light of some of the recent events. From our standpoint, of course we take our customers’ data, their application, their security and privacy very seriously. This is an area that is not new territory for us. Customers have been trusting us with their most precious IT assets for decades now and so this is something that is just part of who we are as a company, where our core competency is in engineering and making sure that we have engineered solutions that factor those requirements into our designs and just everything having to do with the way that we work and deliver value to our customers.

 

Tad Brockway: A few areas that I’d like to point out are, how is Microsoft differentiated from some of the other players that are out there? One of the areas where we’ve put a lot of energy into and this is back to meeting customers where they are, is making sure that Azure is available to customers in their region, within their specific requirements. Let’s say if it’s a government customer, for instance, where Azure can be instantiated in an environment that meets the specific requirements of a given customer. That can scale from, we can host Azure via a product that we call Azure Stack; where a service provider from, let’s say, a small to medium business, their service provider can host their own instance of Azure, in their data centre; as well as Microsoft is the leading vendor when it comes to developing our public Cloud to regions around the world.

 

Tad Brockway: We are more regions around the world than our primary competitors combined and, with respect to compliance, for instance, we have more certifications than our competitors combined as well. This is, again, all back to that theme I talked about earlier, of making sure that we meet customers where they are.

 

Larry Jordan: Let’s think a little bit more about security. Taking a bigger picture, which is the bigger risk to our data? Someone hacking into Microsoft servers or human error, such as an end user sharing passwords or fishing?

 

Tad Brockway: These are both things that are very different threats, obviously; so it would be hard to stack rank them. These are areas that we have to factor in. In terms of the latter, I guess, making it possible for our customers to avoid those kinds of threat factors with their applications and the way they’re designed and the way the types of authentication protocols and capabilities that we provide to them. That’s something that we have in mind, as we go design our authentication services and so on for our customers. But then, protecting our platform is just intrinsic to what we do as a company in the Cloud.

 

Larry Jordan: What features have you added recently to Azure?

 

Tad Brockway: From a security standpoint?

 

Larry Jordan: No, back to Azure itself and your particular part of it.

 

Tad Brockway: Okay. Coming back to Azure Storage; I never fully answered the question at the top of the interview.

 

Larry Jordan: We get distracted a lot.

 

Tad Brockway: Yes, it’s easy, I guess. I’m responsible for the Azure Storage business and technology and Azure Storage is our public Cloud or our Cloud Storage platform. We have support for a view large store. Our object storage is something that the industry refers to as the sort of current Gen of storage technology; but also, traditional file system storage, we’re able to do that in the Cloud, as well. Supporting existing and familiar file systems protocols, for instance.

 

Tad Brockway: In that sense, we are one of the most core capabilities in the Azure platform and one of the workloads that our customers will typically adopt as their first workload in the Cloud. If you think about media, in particular, for media customers, there’s a lot of new data that’s being generated by customers and then there’s also existing data that customers want to keep around and have it be secured and resilient to disaster recovery and so on. Leveraging the Cloud for those capabilities, to give customers more confidence when it comes to data durability and resilience, but also more flexibility in terms of sharing data, by moving it into the Cloud. That’s something that’s all possible via public Cloud Storage, which is our area.

 

Tad Brockway: Specifically for the media industry, where the artists and the innovators in media can be spread out all across the world and they can be federated and need to all work together and collaborate, the public Cloud with Storage at the core is very powerful and essential in that regard. It enables innovators and artists in different places in the world all to meet together in the cloud and to have their content and data sharable in a secure fashion; in a central place where they can all get together, in a very flexible way, and take advantage of that content that they’re building.

 

Tad Brockway: The rate in which we’re renovating in Storage and just in the Azure platform overall, we are every single day shipping new features into production and we have a whole slew of new services and capabilities that are rolling in within Azure Storage and I wouldn’t even know where to start.

 

Larry Jordan: For people that want more information about what Azure can do, where do they go on the web?

 

Tad Brockway: Great question. For more information, we encourage all of your listeners to go to azure.microsoft.com.

 

Larry Jordan: Tad, we’ll bring you back to talk more about Azure in coming weeks. Thanks for joining us. Tad Brockway is the General Manager for Microsoft Azure Storage and, Tad, we’ll talk to you soon.

 

Tad Brockway: Thank you Larry.

 

Larry Jordan: Bye-bye.

 

Larry Jordan: It is a fascinating thing, all the different technology that we’ve been able to cover on this show and what interests me is, how security factors into the core of all of it. Whether we’re looking at being able to access our storage in the Cloud, or whether we’re trying to transfer files from one point to another; or we want to make money on the files that we’ve got. Whether we’re looking at storing our data on a brand new SSD drive, security is everywhere and that wasn’t the case a couple of years ago. I’m struck by that.

 

Larry Jordan: I’m also struck by the fact that it’s time to wrap up. I want to thank our guests this week, Mathew Gilliat-Smith, Derick Rhodes, Ned Soltz, Richard Leonarz, Tad Brockway and James DeRuvo. There’s a lot of history in our industry and it’s all posted to our website, at digitalproductionbuzz.com. Here you’ll find thousands of interviews all online and all available to you today. Remember to sign up for our free weekly show newsletter that comes out every Saturday.

 

Larry Jordan: Talk with us on Twitter @DPBuZZ and Facebook at digitalproductionbuzz.com. Our theme music is composed by Nathan Dugi-Turner, with additional music provided by smartsound.com. Text transcripts are Take 1 Transcription. Visit take1.tv, to learn how they can help you. Our Producer is Debbie Price, my name is Larry Jordan and thanks for listening to the Digital Production Buzz.

HOST
Larry Jordan

GUESTS
Philip Hodgetts, President, Lumberjack System
Terence Curren, Founder/President, Alpha Dogs Inc.
Josh Wiggins, Chief Commercial Officer, GrayMeta
Jim Tierney, President, Digital Anarchy
Laurent Martin, Cofounder and CMO, Aitokaiku
James DeRuvo, Film and Technology Reporter, DoddleNEWS

==

Larry Jordan: Tonight on the Buzz we look at artificial intelligence, and machine learning.  What exactly are they?  Should we be worried about our jobs, or should we embrace the new technology?

Larry Jordan:  We start with Philip Hodgetts, the CEO of Intelligent Assistance. Philip’s first foray into AI was almost ten years ago, with First Cut which provided a way to automatically create a selects reel based solely on metadata.  Tonight, Philip brings us up to speed on the latest AI technology.

Larry Jordan:  Terence Curren, founder and president of Alpha Dogs joins us to explain the impact that AI will have on post production jobs, and what we need to do to prepare for the changes.

Larry Jordan:  Josh Wiggins is the chief commercial officer for GrayMeta, a company that uses AI to screen and flag thousands of hours of media for objectionable content which can simplify repurposing films for different distribution requirements.

Larry Jordan:  Jim Tierney, the president of Digital Anarchy has developed a plug-in for Adobe Premiere that automatically transcribes audio files into text, using artificial intelligence and cloud based servers.  Tonight, Jim shares his views of the future of AI.

Larry Jordan: Laurent Martin founded Aitokaiku to create personalized music, live on your mobile device that reflects what you are doing right now.  And he used AI to do it.  Tonight, he explains what he did, how it works and what he sees as the future role of AI.

Larry Jordan:  All this, plus James DeRuvo with our weekly DoddleNEWS update.  The Buzz starts now.

Announcer:  Since the dawn of digital filmmaking – authoritative – one show serves a worldwide network of media professionals – current – uniting industry experts – production – filmmakers – post production – and content creators around the planet – distribution.  From the media capital of the world in Los Angeles, California, the Digital Production Buzz goes live now.

Larry Jordan:  Welcome to the Digital Production Buzz, the world’s longest running podcast for the creative content industry, covering media production, post production and marketing around the world.

Larry Jordan:  Hi, my name is Larry Jordan.  Tonight’s show grew out of a blog I wrote a few weeks ago entitled I’m Worried about the Future of Editing.  In it I described my concerns that as technology speeds toward adopting more tools, powered by artificial intelligence, many editors would get pushed out of work.  That blog generated a lot of readers and a lot of response, so we wanted to explore this idea more fully tonight on the Buzz.

Larry Jordan:   After I published my blog, I sent a copy to Philip Hodgetts, our first guest tonight.  Philip has been working with AI for years as well as creating a number of critically useful utilities for video editors.  While there seems to be no doubt that AI will impact video editing, there is a lot of debate as to the how and the when.  Philip wrote a different take on the importance of AI as a response to my blog, so we invited him on tonight to help us explore this issue.

Larry Jordan:   Other guests are all directly working with AI in some form of another.  Terry Curren runs a post production house and has strong opinions on the impact this technology will have on jobs in the industry.  Josh Wiggins, Jim Tierney and Laurent Martin are all creating tools that use AI to enable us to accomplish tasks that are not easy to do any other way.

Larry Jordan:  I am fascinated by all these discussions and hope they enable us to learn more about this industry changing technology as well.

.

Larry Jordan:  Now it’s time for a DoddleNEWS update with James DeRuvo.  Hello James.

James DeRuvo:  Hello James, what are you doing James?  Oh sorry, I thought we were talking about AI.

Larry Jordan:  We are talking about AI but that is not the same thing as 2001.  What have we got on the news this week, what’s happening?

James DeRuvo:  Intel announced this week that they’re rounding out their new i9 family of chips.  Code named Basin Falls, the new i9 chip has up to 18 cores and a teraflop of processing power.  They’re adding additional chips to the family in response to AMD’s lower priced Threadripper.  Intel will add a Skylake X-series of i7 processors, as well as a lower priced Kaby Lake i5 which will also come and the architecture will have up to eight cores.  But the i5s will not have hyper threading.  Prices will start at around 1199 for the Basin Falls i9, and they will be available in September and October.

Larry Jordan:  How does this Intel offering compare with AMD’s latest chips?

James DeRuvo:  Considering that AMD’s Threadripper line costs about $1,000 less, and just has two fewer cores, it makes them quite attractive to those on a serious budget.  Especially considering that the more cores you have, the slower your computer runs.  So if you want your computer to run faster, but you want to have more power, that AMD Threadripper line becomes very attractive.  So Intel was under pressure to respond and it looks like the chip war is going to continue.

Larry Jordan:  Alright, that’s our first story.  What’s number two?

James DeRuvo:  Did you know that the Panasonic GH5 can actually shoot 6K video?

Larry Jordan:  I did not, so tell me more.

James DeRuvo:  Sort of.  There’s a mode on this GH5 called “6K photo mode” and basically you use that to take 6K still images.  But you can go into the settings and set the shutter for stop and start so that every time you press the button you start it, and then you press it again and you stop it.  And what that basically turns it into, is a 6K video camera, shooting in H.265.  The source footage will need to be converted to ProRes to be supported by most editing suites.  Premiere does have a free plug-in that you can download that will read H.265 natively, but I’m sure you would agree with me, it would be a resource hog to play with it that way.  So you have to jump through that hoop of converting into ProRes and the other drawback is that the 6K photo mode is in 4.3 so it’s not strictly 6K resolution.  It’s more like 5K plus.  But you could also upscale that to 8K.

Larry Jordan:  What was the initial issue that this work around resolves?

James DeRuvo:  When Panasonic came out with the GH5 and its 6K chip, many were left wondering why they couldn’t harness the entire chip to shoot video and this non-destructive hack will let them do it.  But with the huge file sizes and additional steps in the workflow, you’re not going to want to do it all the time but to grab that beautiful sunset and get that extra bit of resolution and color gamut, it might be worth a try.

Larry Jordan:  Alright, in the little bit of time we’ve got left, what’s our third story?

James DeRuvo:  Finally Apple’s HomePod, the home assistant that’s coming out, developers are starting to dig into the firmware and they’re starting to find out details about the next generation iPhone.  It looks like it’s going to have 4K in both the front and the back camera, as well as 60 frames per second.  It’ll have a new bezel-less design that’ll likely have face detection to unlock.  It’ll also have a glass back for wireless recharging and their tenth anniversary iPhone which I think might be called the iPhone Pro, will have an OLED screen.

Larry Jordan:  What’s your sense for the next iPhone announcements?

James DeRuvo:   I think we’re going to see some smart camera modes in the phone that’ll basically select the best scene detection for the lighting that it reads.  There’s going to be something called freeze motion which will be able to fight motion blur, so you can get a better quality moving image.  Based on the specs found on Apple’s new HomePod, it looks like Apple’s going to have a data upgrade for the iPhone 7S and 7S plus, and then they’ll add that tenth anniversary iPhone.  But the real question is going to be, “Is it going to be worth the money?”  Would you pay over $1,000 for an anniversary iPhone?

Larry Jordan:  We’ll just have to see what it does before I’ll decide if it’s worth the money.  James, what other stories are we following?

James DeRuvo: other stories we’re following include a portion of Leica and they go on the auction block and Zeiss looks to be the main suitor.  That leaked spec from the HomePod also indicates that the Apple TV will finally be coming out in 4K, and here’s a question for you.  What are the ten commandments for working on a film set?  You’ve got that one as well.

Larry Jordan:   There’s only one place to know, and that is what website?

James DeRuvo:  All these stories, plus reviews and tutorials can be found at Doddlenews.com.

Larry Jordan:  James DeRuvo is the senior writer for Doddlenews.com, returns every week with a DoddleNEWS update, and James as always, thank you very much, have yourself a good week.

James DeRuvo:  You too.

Larry Jordan:  Take care, bye bye.

James DeRuvo:  Bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  Here’s another website I want to introduce you to.  Doddlenews.com. DoddleNEWS gives you a portal into the broadcast, video and film industries.  It’s a leading online resource, presenting news, reviews and products for the film and video industry.  DoddleNEWS also offers a resource guide and crew management platforms specifically designed for production.  These digital call sheets, along with their app, directory and premium listings, provide in depth organizational tools for busy production professionals.  DoddleNEWS is a part of the Thalo Arts Community, a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers.  From photography to filmmaking, performing arts to fine arts, and everything in between, Thalo is filled with resources you need to succeed.  Whether you want the latest industry news, need to network with other creative professionals or require state of the art online tools to manage your next project, there’s only one place to go.  Doddlenews.com.

Larry Jordan:  Philip Hodgetts is a technologist and the CEO of Intelligent Assistance and Lumberjack System.  Even better, he’s a regular here on The Buzz and I’m always delighted to say hello Philip, welcome back.

Philip Hodgetts:  Hi Larry, thank you for inviting me.

Larry Jordan:  It is always a pleasure because every time I have you on, I learn something.  So that’s always a good thing.  Philip tonight we’re looking at the impact of artificial intelligence on the media production industry, and to get us started, how would you define artificial intelligence, machine learning and neural networks?

Philip Hodgetts:  It’s a very good question because these are three aspects that are kind of merged into one concept called artificial intelligence.  Right at the top end, generalized artificial intelligence is the replacement human.  Anything that you and I can do, it would be able to learn to do in the same way that we would be able to learn to do it.  That’s kind of scary and fortunately a fair way off still because if machines become autonomous, then they may not find much use for the human infestation on the planet.  So I’d rather leave that to the people who worry about that as their daily job is to be a worrier.

Philip Hodgetts:  What I see as much more interesting is the augmented person, the augmented human.  Steve Jobs talked about the bicycle of the mind, he wanted his computers to be a way of making a faster human, and he used the analysis that a cougar could outrun every human, but a human on a bike can often outrun a cougar.  So bicycle of the mind is the machine learning component where we get tools that make it easier for us humans to do the work that only we can do.  This is generally implemented with machine learning which is the sort of generic class over neural networks.  Machine learning is what we do, the neural networks are kind of how we do it.  So a machine can be taught, usually by training that machine and the machine consists of a bunch of neural networks inside in general broad terms.  There are obviously variations on this, but let’s stick to keeping it understandable.

Philip Hodgetts:  The machine is trained by showing it a lot of examples and telling it whether it’s getting closer to the output that you want or further away from the output that you want.  Ultimately, the neural networks inside take this feedback and work out how to give you the result that you expect or want, even though we ultimately never know what’s going on in that neural network’s brain.  Once you’ve generated a model like this, you can take that model and you could run that say on Apple’s ML kit, on an ios device.  So you could have the modeling of the way your customers might behave or the way your equipment might behave, and you can run it in real time on an ios device.

Philip Hodgetts:   A lot of what we’ve done with machine learning and this has been applied to very common tasks, there are application programming interfaces, things that a developer can simply call up on the internet and say “Here’s a file, give me back the text of that file.”  There’s a number of people doing these, what I group under the heading of cognitive services.  It’s a sub-set of machine learning because there’s machine’s that have already been trained by somebody else, IBM Watson for example have trained machines using neural networks how to take speech and convert it into text.  How to recognize images, how to detect emotion, how to identify the emotion, how to extract key words, concepts, identities, all of these things can be done right now and accessed by anyone from IBM Watson, from Microsoft Cortana, Google have a bunch of APIs as do Amazon.

Philip Hodgetts:   And of course you can mix and match these APIs, but generally these will be called by a programmer so as I said, the machines can be trained to do whatever we want them to learn to do, whether it just be learn to better predict what apps I might look at at six o’clock at night and then I swipe to search on my ios device.  Through to making a speech detects engine.  So I think that’s the overview of what artificial intelligence encompasses right now.

Larry Jordan:  Now the tech industry generally follows the philosophy of inventing whatever they can, and then worrying about the impact of that invention on society after the fact, and I call this the law of unintended consequences.  What do you see as the fallout from implementing more and more tools based on AI?

Philip Hodgetts:  Well, obviously they’ll have an impact on employment but I think Terry Curren is going to address that later.  It would change the workflows that we have.  Say for example, you’re working on a documentary or reality program.  You’ve got a bunch of material that’s come in, currently it’ll be transcribed overnight by interns or via service, but now that we have engines we can do this in less than real time, faster than real time, and that’s faster than the real time of the longest interview that you might have, or the longest take you might want to transcribe because it all happens in parallel.  So, we have back almost instantly, transcription, key word extraction, and concept extraction. The difference between key words and concepts is key words are saying what you see, which are the most important words that are used in the transcript, hence key word.  Whereas concept is, instead of speaking about BMW, Ford and Chrysler, we’re talking about motor cars.  So a concept extraction engine would understand that these are all motor cars or automobiles, and would categorize them that way.

Philip Hodgetts:  Imagine how important it would be for reality TV if people could identify where in all of the 60 hours of material from today’s shoot are the high emotion points?  And even nicer if we know whether they’re happy or sad, or angry.  IBM Watson currently detects five different emotions.  They have said that they’re hoping to work on more positive emotions over time.  Happy is the only positive emotion they can currently identify but they’ve got four negative emotions there.  Recognizing images, so we’ll be able to detect whether this person is the same person we’ve got in other shot time and grouping them together in shots.  Waiting for the moment for somebody to add a name to it.  We’ll get concepts like there’s a dog or a Rottweiler in this shot, there are three people, a Rottweiler and they’re in front of a cathedral.  That metadata will come back automatically from the image recognition engines.  And this doesn’t require any programming or any machine learning concepts to be done by the actual developer.  These are things that anybody can draw on right now, for very small amounts of money.

Larry Jordan:  About ten years ago, you created the precursor to Lumberjack, a program called First Cut.  What was your thinking in creating that program back then?

Philip Hodgetts:  We were looking at an era long before any sort of machine learning or artificial intelligence was available, so we built what was known at the time as a knowledge system, where you modeled the knowledge of experts and build a system that replicates that knowledge in some software form.  You build it into an algorithm.  So for First Cuts, the algorithm was doing a very quick version of what the neural networks do, and I would make a cut, and we’d make some rules as to how to make a cut based on metadata, we’d run that algorithm.  I would say what was wrong with it, then I’d have to translate what I would do instead into a rule of thumb that then could be implemented.  So essentially it’s just a bunch of really good rules of thumb of how to build a story together is what we did in First Cuts.

Philip Hodgetts:  I don’t know whether machine learning would be a faster way to do that these days or whether the modeling of human knowledge makes it a little bit faster, because the business of editing is very complex.  We can have AI teach themselves certain things like recently Google had an AI teach itself how to walk.  But then there’s only really two rules for teaching, move forward and don’t fall over.  I don’t think I could distill down even the simplest wedding algorithm into terms like that because we challenged and developed autonomously.  But if I could find enough examples of good weddings, when they were graders, say “This is a good example of a wedding video and this is a bad example of a wedding video,” I could run those through a machine, set the machine up and we would probably derive a machine that would then be able to run and build wedding like videos on the fly.

Larry Jordan:  Philip, how fast do you expect AI to start materially affecting jobs?

Philip Hodgetts:  I expect to see the first implementations available to everyone’s software this year.  So probably because overall we’re a fairly conservative industry, it’s still going to be two or three years before we start to see any real effects on jobs.  This will be more powerful for independent filmmakers like Cirina Catania who have good technical knowledge but struggle with organization and extracting a story.  So, for people like that I think it will empower people very quickly.  Moving into the studios, we’re probably looking at eight, nine or ten years before anything changes in those very regimented systems.

Larry Jordan:  So what should we do to best prepare ourselves for the future?

Philip Hodgetts:  Well if you want to stay in the media entertainment industry, learn how to tell stories regardless of the method that you use to tell story.  The core storytelling skills have been pretty constant from the cavemen around a camp fire to the present day feature film.  We have to engage interest and provide a story that keeps people along with you.  So I think preparing to be adaptive, preparing to learn new skills is also one of the most important features going forward.  I like to call it constructive forgetting because you’re going to have to forget things that were absolutely true five years ago, because they’re no longer true as absolutes.  We’ve both see that so much in our careers so far, it’s obviously going to continue that way that the change will be there, but we need to be flexible and open to the change, embrace it and become the best bicycle of the mind rider that we can be.

Larry Jordan:  I’m delighted to say the older I get, the easier it becomes to forget, so I think I’m perfectly positioned for this new technology.

Philip Hodgetts:  I’m fine with that too.

Larry Jordan:  Philip, for people that want more information about where and what you’re thinking, where do they go on the web?

Philip Hodgetts:  The where I’m thinking is at philiphodgetts.com, Philip with one L.  For our business applications, there is intelligentassistance.com and lumberjacksystem.com.

Larry Jordan:  Philip Hodgetts is the CEO of both Intelligent Assistance, and Lumberjack System.  Philip, thanks for joining us today.

Philip Hodgetts:  My pleasure.

Larry Jordan:  Take care, bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  Terence Curren is the founder and president of Alpha Dogs, a Burbank based post production facility that he started back in 2002.  Terry is also the host of the Editors Lounge, a regular gathering of post production professionals interested in improving their craft.  Hello Terry, welcome back.

Terence Curren:  Thanks Larry, I always enjoy these confrontations.

Larry Jordan:  I always enjoy talking with you, because if there’s one thing I can count on, it’s the fact that you never ever have an opinion.

Terence Curren:  I guess you know me well.

Larry Jordan:  Terry, we’ve just discussed the basics of artificial intelligence with Philip Hodgetts, so what I’d like to do is to focus more on its impact in our industry with you.  So, what are your thoughts?  Is AI a good thing, or are we doomed?

Terence Curren:  Wow, that’s a great question.  Well let me put it this way, ultimately we are doomed I think.  But right now, what’s really important is to focus on being creative.  The reason I put it that way is that, yes, at some point in time, artificial intelligence will become as intelligent as human beings, and then one second later, it’s smarter than we are, and a day later we’re cockroaches compared to it.  When that happens, which is hopefully a long way off, the rosy predictions are like 2040.  The less rosy predictions are much later than that, so it’s a ways off, but there are stages, as Philip’s talked about of AI, and the ones that are going to immediately start replacing jobs in our industry are the mundane jobs, logging footage, syncing dailies, that kind of stuff, which is why I tell people, focus on the creative, because that’s the hardest thing for AI to do, the creative thing.  That muse that strikes and gives you an idea of how to put two things together that you shouldn’t put together, that all the rules say don’t put together, but somehow it makes an amazing end result.   So that part is going to be the last thing to be replaced so if you want to be in this industry and to continue to work, focus on the creative.

Larry Jordan:  Now when you say focus on the creative, it sounds like what you want us to do is look more at the craft of editing as opposed to the technology?

Terence Curren:  Exactly.  Because from the technology standpoint, that’s going to be the easiest thing to replace, technologically so to speak.  Philip ten years ago was showing his First Cuts which would string out footage into a basic rough cut and then the editor could go in and just fine tune it.  That eliminates the mundane part which is what he was trying to do.  But it also eliminates a job that an assistant editor would traditionally do.  So if you’re doing anything that’s very repetitive, if it’s something that someone can be taught within a few days, you’re probably going to get replaced sooner than later.  That’s why I really recommend focusing on the creative side because that’s the part that’s going to be the hardest thing to replace with artificial intelligence in the long run.

Larry Jordan:  Putting aside the emotional aspect of people losing their jobs which is very similar to the old joke of “Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, did you enjoy the play?”  Is it really a bad thing that we’re streamlining our workflow?

Terence Curren:  No. I’m not a Luddite.  I think that the technological improvements that we’re making everywhere, not just in our industry, but in general, make our lives better and have the promise of making our lives better throughout.  The problem is that we have a society based on a minimum of a 40 hour work week work ethic and we’re moving to a society where there just won’t be that much work that needs to be done, and how do we restructure our society so that we can enjoy the benefits of all of this technology, and not feel guilty that we’re not working hard enough?

Larry Jordan:  Or more importantly, how can we enjoy the benefits of all this technology, and live while making less money?

Terence Curren:  Yes, which is the whole universal basic income discussion which is probably an entirely different show.

Larry Jordan:  If you’re a young editor starting out, what advice would you give?  Should they embrace this technology, should they fight against the technology, and how should they structure their career?

Terence Curren:  Ooh, well, if somebody was starting out now, and wanting to be an editor, I would tell them the same thing that I was saying back when I was teaching editing classes around 2000. That is, if you can imagine yourself doing anything else for a living, you should go do it, because our industry is so difficult and so competitive to get in and then make a decent living at, that unless you can’t imagine doing anything else, you probably won’t have the drive for the long run that it takes to build a career.  That said, if you are one of those people who can’t imagine doing anything else, then just do it.  Edit as much as you can, edit for friends, look at your local film school and offer to edit director’s projects.  Wherever you can edit, and that’s how you get the chops, and the connections that eventually will lead to a career.

Larry Jordan:  Terry for people that want more information about what you’re doing and Alpha Dogs itself, where can they go on the web?

Terence Curren:  Alphadogs.tv for Alpha Dogs, editorslounge.com for the Editors Lounge, and theterenceandphilipshow.com for your dose of Philip and I debating various things.

Larry Jordan:  Bring extra coffee when that occurs.  That website is alphadogs.tv and Terence Curren is the founder and president of Alpha Dogs.  Terry, this has been fun, thanks so much for joining us.

Terence Curren:  Thanks for having me Larry.

Larry Jordan:  Josh Wiggins is the chief commercial officer for GrayMeta which is a company that leverages machine learning and artificial intelligence along with metadata and content workflows for the media and entertainment, law enforcement and healthcare industries.  Hello Josh, welcome.

Josh Wiggins:  Hello there.

Larry Jordan: How would you describe GrayMeta?

Josh Wiggins:  GrayMeta is a relatively new company and as you said in your intro, we’re leveraging machine learning and artificial intelligence to help enterprises in different sectors connect to their content and data that they have, and really streamline and bring efficiencies to workflows which predominantly have been leveraging human capital to scale.

Larry Jordan:  How do you differentiate between machine learning and artificial intelligence?  What’s the difference?

Josh Wiggins:  It’s a great question and I think if ten different people asked it and ten different people answered, you’d get a range of answers.  My viewpoint here is that machine learning is great technology that we have that’s allowing us to replace the creation of metadata that was getting done by humans and loggers, and is getting done by machines in the area that I talk about with video content and images.  So it’s training a machine to understand what is actually in the image, like what we have on our iPhone or on our new Samsung phone.  Now it’s the artificial intelligence that’s using that metadata to be able to make a decision on behalf of something that a human would have done.

Josh Wiggins:   So as an example, in media entertainment, compliance is an area where for years you’ve had humans have to look at a video or a movie to understand if certain things are good or bad or allowed for different markets.  Now what we can do is use machine learning to actually identify if there’s swearing or nudity or certain religious flags in the content and then make a decision that it should be flagged and sent to the next step in the workflow without necessarily having to have a human look at every single frame.  So that’s how machine learning is creating metadata, and my view is that artificial intelligence is using that metadata to make a decision that a human would have previously made.  Or, in some cases, AI is there to complement the human because machine learning isn’t 100 percent perfect at the moment.

Larry Jordan:  So machine learning is the process, and artificial intelligence is the result?

Josh Wiggins:  You could go there.  Many would disagree, but I believe that’s a good summary based on our point of view at GrayMeta.

Larry Jordan:  Alright.  Within the point of view of your company, where do you see the biggest opportunity for AI?  Is it in production, or post or distribution?

Josh Wiggins:  I think it’s in the middle.  Alta distribution.  There’s a lot of areas where it can help in production.  We’ve seen a lot of people whose job is around dailies, get really interested in this.  While we’re a little bit cautious because it kind of opens up to a lot of different security constraints that you have to deal with with pre-released content, and applying machine learning to the dailies process, and we’re starting to see camera manufacturers embrace it, and people that are creating tools for the daily space, with facial recognition to identify who the actors are, I think that’s going to start to bring efficiencies.  I think you’re going to run into some of the unions and what someone should do, and the profiles of roles on the production side, but more so definitely in distribution.  There’s a huge opportunity here to streamline and cut some of the costs out of what’s been going on in distribution and allowing people to get content to markets a little bit quicker, and really improve search and recommendation of content which I think definitely needs some work.

Larry Jordan:  Well technology companies tend to view AI as an enabler, while many editors are concerned that it’s going to cost them their job.  What’s your perspective?

Josh Wiggins:   That’s a good question.

Larry Jordan: They’re easy to ask.

Josh Wiggins:  Yes, I don’t spend the majority of my time in the post and the editorial side when the good news is you’re able to work with partners that are in that.  I think it’s going to have an impact in the editorial process.  We’re already seeing that, whether it’s redacting a face or editing out a logo of a brand, that’s something that’s done today where someone books an edit room and they’re going to find all of these brands that might be on a soda bottle in a UK show and you need to edit it out for a different version in the US.  I do believe we are very close to not necessarily needing a human as part of that process, or maybe to verify.  And that will have an impact.  You can detect a logo or a brand, or an image and you can use that data now to feed an EDL and actually go directly through and automate a redaction or a blur.  We’re actively working on that with a number of our partners that are in the editing space or in the media asset management.  So that’s coming, and it is going to have an impact on what people do.

Larry Jordan:  A lot of what your software can do is to scan huge amounts of footage in a very fast amount of time, so rather than having a person sit there and watch these thousands of hours of media, you can do that using your software.  Is that correct?

Josh Wiggins: Yes, that’s a great summary.  What we’re able to do is plug into the best of the best of the machine learning and AI platforms.  Our platform and our company really aggregates together the right services and actually makes it usable by the customer.  So we work with a lot of the large providers out there like Amazon, IBM, Google and Microsoft, but then we’re also working with some of the smaller niche providers and I think that’s what really helps us get the right metadata service for that particular client.  Your point there about being able to analyze all of the data, we work in law enforcement and we’ve started to look at the problem there with body cams and what’s interesting is, there just isn’t enough human horsepower to review all of the footage.  Same could be said if someone just acquired a whole library and you need to review it.  So what we’re doing is being able to use this metadata to say, “Well OK, on the 7,000 hours of content, these 200 hours have profanity and swearing in it.”  Now you’ve actually got action.  The key is taking action, and that’s what we’re really trying to do in our platform, allowing people to take action quicker, and reduce the amount of money they have to spend in doing so.

Larry Jordan:  We’ve talked about the fact that AI can be applied to production or post or distribution, but where do you see AI having the biggest impact, and what do we need to change to make that even more effective?

Josh Wiggins: There’s an area where I think this can be used, and it’s in the rights, or it’s in the actual buying and selling of content.  I think this is an area which always gets forgotten.  When a studio sells a particular piece of content to a broadcaster, in that deal there are pieces that go along with it, the video, the marketing collateral, the billboards and the stills.  But I think what’s missing is this metadata that’s created by machine learning should go all the way through the process.  So when a studio is creating metadata about compliance for an in flight review of that piece of content, if there’s a broadcaster in Spain that’s buying it, they should be able to get that as well.  It shouldn’t just be the movies.  So I think the machine learning and AI power needs to carry it all the way through to the person that buys the content.  And that’s got to happen at the deal level, places like Con and Mipcom where people are buying and selling content.  I don’t believe that people are having the conversations about AI machine learning in those conversations.

Larry Jordan: For people that want more information about what GrayMeta is doing, where can they go on the web?

Josh Wiggins:  They can go to our website which is www.graymeta.com.

Larry Jordan:  That’s all one word, graymeta.com and Josh Wiggins is the chief commercial officer for GrayMeta, and Josh, thanks for joining us today.

Josh Wiggins: Great, thank you very much Larry.

Larry Jordan:  Jim Tierney founded Digital Anarchy in 2001 specifically to develop plug-ins to simplify creating visual effects.  And this week he’s in beta with a new one.  Hello Jim.

Jim Tierney:  Hey Larry, how’s it going?

Larry Jordan:  Well, it’s going great because tonight we’re looking at the impact of AI on the video industry and you’re currently in beta with Transcriptive, which is directly relevant to this discussion.  Tell us about the product.

Jim Tierney:   We’re using AI machine learning to transcribe video, doing it automatically.  It’s a plug-in for Premiere Pro so everything’s totally integrated into Premiere and so we’re exporting the audio out of Premiere, uploading it to the speech services, and getting back a transcript that then appears within Premiere.

Larry Jordan:   Where does AI get involved?

Jim Tierney:   Well, we allow the user to use one of two speech services.  Watson, which is IBM’s offering, and another one called Speechmatics, which is the better of the two, to analyze the audio and transcribe it.  So the AI is in the speech services.

Larry Jordan:  Recently I reviewed another automated transcription service and discovered that it had problems with technical jargon and proper nouns.  What factors reduce the accuracy of these automated transcripts?

Jim Tierney:  You know, exactly that.  The quality of the audio matters, a lot.  It can handle accents, but it helps if the person is well spoken.  That’s a big deal.  Certainly technical jargon is going to be a little bit problematic, uncommon names are going to be a little bit problematic.  So there’s definitely accuracy issues with some areas which is why it’s still going to require a little bit of clean up for sure.

Larry Jordan:  With AI does the system get better the more it listens or is AI just the process of being able to create the text in the first place?

Jim Tierney:  That’s why we have the speech services as the back end because they’re the ones doing the training, and that’s their specialty.  Our specialty is creating tools for video editors.  So, they’re focused on doing all the training, and the more stuff that gets thrown at them, the more it learns.  But that’s more on the speech services side.

Larry Jordan:  Now back to Transcriptive.  What languages does it support?

Jim Tierney:  A lot.

Larry Jordan:  More than US English?

Jim Tierney:  Yes.  It’s what the speech services are supporting, so it does a great job with English, Japanese, supports all the European languages and so there’s quite a few and there’s some other ones out there as well. I don’t know the entire list but it’s pretty comprehensive actually.

Larry Jordan: What does it cost?

Jim Tierney:  The list price is 249.

Larry Jordan:  I’m sorry, say again.

Jim Tierney:  249.

Larry Jordan:  249. Now you’re in beta now, have you set a release date?

Jim Tierney:  We’re shooting for probably the next two or three weeks, we’re pretty close to release.

Larry Jordan: I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you, that’s always a nerve wracking time, just before you release a product.

Jim Tierney:  Absolutely.  There is a charge for the speech services that runs like two cents a minute or something like that.  But comparative to traditional transcription that’s pretty inexpensive.

[

Larry Jordan:  For people that have done traditional transcription, there’s the person that transcribes it, and then generally an editorial person or two that looks over the quality of the transcript.  So generally the transcript we get back traditionally has a higher quality than this.  What’s the biggest advantage to using automated transcription?

Jim Tierney:  It’s a lot cheaper.  I think the quality of Speechmatics is pretty close to what you’re going to get from a lower cost transcription services.  At least with good audio.  So there’s that.  You have it all within Premiere so the text is searchable which means you can jump to where that text happens on the timeline.  Although we just did implement a feature where if you have regular transcripts through a normal source, you can pull that into Premiere and Transcriptive will conform it to the audio in your timeline.  So it’ll sync everything up between the text and the audio.

Larry Jordan:  Well put your futurist hat on, this is the last question I’ve got for you.  What do you see as the future of AI in our industry, and what would you suggest to editors who are concerned about it taking jobs?

Jim Tierney:  I mean I think it’s a little bit of a blow, and I think on the lower end you probably will see it taking some jobs.  If you’re doing wedding videos or music videos or stuff like that, stuff where there is definitely enough training data for the AIs to do that.  You know, there might be some instances where there’s a $50 web service if you want to give all your guests iPhones and let them shoot the video of your wedding and then let the AI deal with that mess.  That’s going to be available I think fairly soon.  But so much of video editing is managing the client, and client relationships, and then being able to interpret what the client says and clear out what they really want.  And I think AI’s a very long way from dealing with that type of thing.

Larry Jordan:  Jim, for people that want more information about Digital Anarchy and Transcriptive, where do they go on the web?

Jim Tierney:  They go to digitalanarchy.com and there’s a button on the front page that allows them to sign up for the beta.

Larry Jordan:  That’s all one word, digitalanarchy.com and Jim Tierney is the president and founder of Digital Anarchy.  Jim, thanks for joining us today.

Jim Tierney: Thanks Larry.

Larry Jordan: Take care bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  I want to introduce you to a new website, Thalo.com.  Thalo is an artist community and networking site for creative people to connect, be inspired and showcase their creativity.  Thalo.com features content from around the world with a global perspective on all things creative.  Thalo is the place for creative folks to learn, collaborate, market and sell their works.  Thalo is a part of Thalo Arts, a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers.  From photography to filmmaking, performing arts to fine arts, and everything in between, Thalo is filled with the resources you need to succeed.  Visit Thalo.com and discover how their community can help you connect, learn and succeed.  That’s Thalo.com.

Larry Jordan:  Laurent Martin trained as an opera singer in Los Angeles then sang professionally in Germany. However, in 2012 he cofounded Aitokaiku which is a mobile application that creates original music using artificial intelligence.  Hello Laurent, welcome.

Laurent Martin:  Hi Larry, thanks for having me.

Larry Jordan:  It’s good to have you back, because the last time we chatted was earlier this year, in January but in tonight’s show, we’re looking at different ways that our industry is either using or being affected by AI.  So just to get us started, let’s talk about your company Aitokaiku.  What is it?

Laurent Martin:  We are a music technology company and the technology that we make creates music from your world.  It transforms your world into music and the way we do that is we take sensor data and really it could be any data stream, and we compose live music for that.  So our mission in life, is to create music that is personal and to really personalize every note of music that you hear.  It should always be you that is in the music, your life, your activities.

Larry Jordan:  Where does AI fit into this?

Laurent Martin:  The first thing I want to say about AI and I don’t want to be too provocative, but we think at Aitokaiku that music AI is very boring.  The reason that we think it’s boring is the same way that flour is boring.  But it’s also essential, and you can’t make bread, you can’t make cake, unless you’ve got the flour, and so it’s sort of the same way with AI.  Our music composition engine is something we test a lot of different technologies with, not just AI, also algorithmic composition, probabilistic composition, so there’s a lot of different things that go into that and that’s changing and evolving all the time.  For us though, just the raw composition aspect of it has to be a given in the same way that for any type of musician, proficiency is the minimum standard.

Larry Jordan:  It sounds to me like what you’re doing is you’re taking the sounds of the environment, and turning it into something musical.  In order for us to recognize it as music, we have to have some sort of composition underlying it, and the composition engine is what you’re using the AI for.  Is that a true summary?

Laurent Martin:   That’s a great way to summarize it, and you know, all the things that we can do in the real world with sensors, we can also virtualize, so we also have an app called vimu, video music for ios and that is able to create and compose music based on the action inside the shot of the video.  So no matter what it is that we’re using is that input, it’s that thing that gives it personality, that gives it a human connection, a connection with somebody’s actual experiences in the real world, whatever it is we’re using.  Whether it’s in that virtual space as a video or whether it’s in somebody’s real life that we do with microphones and movement sensors and things like that.  We think that the interesting point happens when somebody creates that music themselves and with their life, and it’s not just a black box.

Larry Jordan:  So what you’re doing is you’re creating music which is tailored to whatever’s going on at that instant that’s being picked up say by the microphone or the cell phone, and turning that into music?  What is the role that AI plays in that?

Laurent Martin:  There’s a couple of different roles that it plays.  There is the intelligence that goes into the composition.  There’s also a significant amount of data that we are processing around the user behavior, and so that is just as important.  What it is that our machine can learn from someone’s actual environment and by taking those data streams and understand the signal amongst the noise, so to speak, and then processing it on the other side as part of the composition engine.  We use different ways to do that. We’re still experimenting and finding what makes the best music for our particular platform, and this is something that is changing so fast as well, something that we’re not only invested in in terms of our own teams and our own product.

Laurent Martin:   We also hosted this last month the Music Information Retrieval meet up in Berlin and what that is is a monthly meet up for professionals in music information retrieval, but these are data scientists that work in the field of music technology.  This is so cutting edge and it moves so fast that it’s only by having this regular sort of contact with professionals all throughout the field that we can really stay in front of it, and I think that something I want to bring up about AI is that it’s not this static thing.  The pace of innovation on that is so much faster than in many other fields of music technology, that it’s something everybody’s got to watch out for.  But I also think that there needs to be a bigger horizon as well.

Larry Jordan:  You’re a musician, you’ve been classically trained and performed as a musician, and yet all of the composition that has been done by humans over centuries, is now being done by machines.  Should we worry about that?

Laurent Martin:  I have a very different perspective I think on this than a lot of other classical musicians.  When I went to university I started with my bachelor’s degree at the University of California, Santa Cruz.  David Cope is a professor there.  He did literally write the book on algorithmic music composition and was one of the earliest and most prolific innovators in computer composed music.  So from the age of 17 it was not unusual to see people performing music that was created by a computer in the concert hall.  There were certainly a lot of friends and colleagues that were all making music that way and we were performing their music created by computers.  So I don’t maybe experience the same separation that a lot of people have with that.  A lot of different composers in the past have created their own style, their own individual algorithms which they wrote music with, and AI is just another tool that helps humans do that even faster and better, and have more creativity than they otherwise could.  So for me, I don’t think I experience that like a lot of other classical musicians.

Larry Jordan:  You mentioned the Music Information Retrieval group.  Tell me a little bit more.  Why was that started, and what benefit does it provide?

Laurent Martin:  The Music Information Retrieval group is a monthly meet up of academics, music data scientists, music informatics researchers and people throughout the music tech industry here in Berlin.  We present every week on different technologies, ranging from how do you assemble the data into manageable data sets, to start using and understanding music?  It could be audio signal processing, it could be manipulating symbolic music, so notational music, and it goes into then composition as well.  So it’s really a lot of diverse research and innovation that’s going on, but kind of the cutting edge and Berlin is a really great place for that.  We also are a founding member of Music Tech Germany, which is the world’s first trade group  for music tech.  That’s the thing about Berlin is we have SoundCloud, Ableton, Native Instruments, some of the biggest companies in music tech are all based here in Berlin, and so it’s really great not only to have these meet ups like this Music Information Retrieval group where we can share ideas, but also a trade group where our business interests are represented and where there is a sense of community that we have here and trying to push the entire industry forward.

Laurent Martin:  There’s a lot of camaraderie, there’s a lot of sharing ideas, and it’s something that as much as it’s important to go into our office and try to push ourselves, we’ve also got to go out there and look out for our peers in our industry, and make sure that we are on the cutting edge every single day.

Larry Jordan:  Is there a website for the Music Information Retrieval group?

Laurent Martin:  You can find it on meetup.com and probably looking at Berlin Music Information Retrieval Group and you can find the music tech Germany trade group at Musictech.de.

Larry Jordan:  That’s musictech.de?

Laurent Martin:  Yes.

Larry Jordan:  One other thing, getting back to you and your company, when we spoke in January, you just had an android app.  You’ve mentioned an ios app.  What do the two apps do?

Laurent Martin:  Our android app that is currently out is a prototype for making music from sensors from someone’s world.  We tried to virtualize that experience within video, and so we created Vimu, that’s video music, and that creates an instant music video as you shoot.  The music that’s created is actually reactive to the colors and the motion inside the shot.  So it’s all real time, there’s no post production, and everything syncs with the action in the shot.

Larry Jordan:  Is this calculation done on the phone itself?  Or are you beaming data back to some super computer and doing processing at the back end?

Laurent Martin:  We are very fortunate to have a very talented CTO, Matti Sarja, who is able to make all of those things happen on the device.  This for us is really important, that people feel like this is something that belongs to them.  It’s created on their device, and then we have coming up in a couple of weeks, Somu, social music. That is a networked app and that will be for android, but that’s going to be our flagship mobile app.  The idea there is that the music that you’re creating from the sensors that are taking in your world and activities, you can share that music with another person, and when they’re listening to it, the sensors on their device are mixing their world into the music, so it’s dynamic, co-created music.  It’s all live, and this is something that gives people that musical sense of jamming and connection, so that is obviously not all happening locally on the device, but when you do that, when it broadcasts somewhere else, it means you’re connected to another individual, and that is really important for us.

Larry Jordan:  Where can we go on the web to learn more about these applications?

Laurent Martin:  You can check out aitokaiku.com and you can also find us on Facebook and Twitter.

Larry Jordan:  Laurent Martin is the co-founder and chief marketing officer for Aitokaiku, and Laurent, thanks for joining us today.

Laurent Martin: Thanks for having me Larry, bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  AI will not leave our industry unchanged, and as we heard tonight, a lot of jobs are going to evolve or slowly disappear over time.  I think the key is to focus on what we do better than machines, which is to be creative.  Continue developing our storytelling skills and make sure our businesses are running as efficiently as possible.  It won’t do anyone any good to hide from AI, just the opposite.  The more we learn about what it can do, the more we’ll understand what it can’t.  And filling that creative gap is where the exciting work will be in the future.

Larry Jordan:  I want to thank this week’s guests, Philip Hodgetts from Intelligent Assistance, Terry Curren from Alpha Dogs, Josh Wiggins from GrayMeta, Jim Tierney from Digital Anarchy, Laurent Martin, president of Aitokaiku and James DeRuvo from DoddleNEWS.

Larry Jordan:   There’s a lot of history in our industry and it’s all posted to our website, at digitalproductionbuzz.com. Here you’ll find thousands of interviews, all online and all available to you today.  Remember to sign up for our free weekly show newsletter that comes out every Saturday.

Larry Jordan:  Talk with us on Twitter @DPBuzz and Facebook at digitalproductionbuzz.com.

Larry Jordan:   Our theme music is composed by Nathan Dugi-Turner with additional music provided by Smartsound.com.  Text transcripts are provided by Take1 Transcription.  Visit Take1.tv to learn how they can help you.

Larry Jordan:   Our producer is Debbie Price, my name is Larry Jordan, and thanks for listening to The Digital Production Buzz.

Larry Jordan:  The Digital Production Buzz is copyright 2017 by Thalo LLC.

HOST
Larry Jordan

GUESTS
James DeRuvo, Film and Technology Reporter, DoddleNEWS
Griffin Hammond, Documentary Filmmaker, (independent)
Scott Page, CEO, Ignited Network
Maxim Jago, Director, MaximJago.com
James DeRuvo, Film and Technology Reporter, DoddleNEWS

==

Larry Jordan: Tonight The Buzz we look at how to build your audience.  Whether you’re a filmmaker, musician, podcaster or other creative individual, we are all looking to reach more people.

Larry Jordan:   We start with Griffin Hammond.  He’s a documentary filmmaker with a successful podcast.  Tonight, he talks about his podcast, what he does to grow his audience and how he defines success.

Larry Jordan:  Scott Page, professional musician and entrepreneur, shares how to use social media to discover who is actually in your audience, how to find more of them, and the tools we can use to reach them.

Larry Jordan:  Filmmaker Maxim Jago looks at the potential for 360 VR to create new audiences for filmmakers.  He explains what this new technology is, and how we can use it to create new captivating content.

Larry Jordan:  All this, plus James DeRuvo with our weekly DoddleNEWS update, plus a report from this week’s SIGGRAPH.  The Buzz starts now.

Announcer:  Since the dawn of digital filmmaking – authoritative – one show serves a worldwide network of media professionals – current – uniting industry experts – production – filmmakers – post production – and content creators around the planet – distribution.  From the media capital of the world in Los Angeles, California, the Digital Production Buzz goes live now.

Larry Jordan:  Welcome to the Digital Production Buzz, the world’s longest running podcast for the creative content industry, covering media production, post production and marketing around the world.

Larry Jordan:  Hi, my name is Larry Jordan.  There are two sides to any creative project.  On one hand is the artist or team of artists that create the work, and the other is the audience that appreciates the work and, ideally, pays for it.  Both of these are essential to the creative process.  So this week we look at how to find and build our audience.  Our guests have lots of ideas on how to use today’s technology to identify, attract and grow an audience.  We look at filmmaking, podcasts and music, as well as new social media tools that we can use to find and expand our fan base, and revenue.

Larry Jordan:  Also, this week was the annual SIGGRAPH conference and expo at the Los Angeles Convention Center.  DoddleNEWS reporter James DeRuvo attended the show and has a report for us on the latest computer graphics, and interactive technology.

Larry Jordan:  By the way, I want to invite you to subscribe to our free weekly show newsletter at digitalproductionbuzz.com.  Every issue, every week provides quick links to the different segments on the show, plus articles of interest to filmmakers.  Best of all it’s free, and comes out every Saturday.

Larry Jordan:  Now it’s time for a DoddleNEWS update with James DeRuvo.  Hello James.

James DeRuvo:  Hello Larry.

Larry Jordan:  So what’s happening today guy?

James DeRuvo:  Boy, this summer I’ve put so many miles on my feet, it’s just ridiculous.  This whole week is SIGGRAPH so we’re going to be talking about that later in the episode, but there’s big news coming out of RED this week.  We finally got to see a first look of the RED Hydrogen One android mobile device. It’s got a 5.7 inch four view holographic display.  We still don’t know what it looks like yet.  RED has been really quiet on letting anybody see what the display looks like but we get to see the faces of people that are looking at the displays and they’re just gobsmacked.  They can’t believe that’s what the display is. That’s very exciting to see.  It’s got a carbon fiber case and these really cool notched sides to make it easier to hold which I think is really good design.  But the killer feature is modular accessories that attach magnetically to the Hydrogen’s back.  These modules which are referred to as Moto Mods on steroids, will enable them to connect everything from higher quality lenses to built in light leader.  The sky is the limit for 360 degree cameras and that’s what gets me excited for android devices for the first time in my life.

Larry Jordan:  You said RED was making a lot of news this week.  What did they announce with Apple?

James DeRuvo:  With Apple they announced a strategic partnership whereby the Apple Store will exclusively carry the RED Raven cinema camera kit.  You may remember the RED Raven’s 4.5K camera, it came and went and we didn’t know what happened to it.  Now it’s going to be at the Apple Store exclusively and at the Apple website.  For around $11-12,000, you’ll get everything you need to hit the ground running and make a movie.

Larry Jordan:  That’s RED.  What other news do we have?

James DeRuvo:  Got some bad news for 3D lovers out there as IMAX has started to back away from showing 3D movies in IMAX theatres.  Starting with Christopher Nolan’s ‘Dunkirk,’ which is a really good movie by the way, IMAX will not show full length feature films in 3D IMAX.  It’ll be 2D moving forward.  ‘Blade Runner 2049’ will be the next movie to follow, and it’s also going to be in 2D.  It looks like IMAX is going to be shifting their focus towards their virtual reality centers, the first of which is their Los Angeles location which has surpassed all expectations for ticket sales, averaging about $15,000 a week for immersive virtual reality experiences.  IMAX plans to open up new centers in New York, Shanghai, China, and Manchester, UK.

Larry Jordan:  What do you think this decisions means for the long term health of stereoscopic 3D?

James DeRuvo:  As I’ve been saying for a while, 3D has, always and will be kind of a gimmicky presentation, and it has become clear to audiences that studios were just doing it so that they can add additional ticket prices and charge them.  However, when 4K and Dolby Atmos arrived on the scene, suddenly those 3D ticket sales started to drop quickly.  That IMAX is dropping 3D indicates to me at least that the medium is finally dying.

Larry Jordan:  That’s IMAX, what’s our third big story this week?

James DeRuvo:  AMD is launching a studio based in Hollywood, it was announced at the Sunday night Keynote for SIGGRAPH. It will be a creative space much like RED Studios which is just down the street, and it will enable filmmakers and technology developers to work on film, virtual and augmented reality productions with the focus on editing and rendering.

Larry Jordan:  AMD was making a lot of news this week at SIGGRAPH, so what I’d like to do, if it’s OK with you, is let’s just take a short break and we can come back and have a more detailed report on the big news out of SIGGRAPH.  Does that work for you?

James DeRuvo:  Oh we’ve got a lot to talk about.

Larry Jordan:  Chat with you in just a second.

Larry Jordan:  We’re back with James DeRuvo the senior writer for DoddleNEWS and James, what are the highlights from SIGGRAPH this week?

James DeRuvo:  I got a lot of ground to cover in both hardware and software, so let’s get right into it.  Blackmagic Design announced Fusion 9.  It has new tools that harnesses OpenCL and your computer’s GPU for keying, planar tracking and camera tracking, virtual reality and Fusion will also have multi user collaboration from anywhere around the world.

James DeRuvo:  Meanwhile Red Giant announced the Trapcode 14, a major update that will add 11 new 3D motion graphics and digital effects tools, including OpenGL, GPU acceleration which everybody seems to be doing, as well as combining systems for complex 3D visual effects and rendering. Maxon has updated Cinema 4D expanding into more virtual reality tools and a host of rendering tools using, you guessed it, OpenCL, OpenEXR and DDS.

Larry Jordan:  Well that’s on the software side.  What hardware news did we get?

James DeRuvo:  On the hardware side of the coin, fresh off announcing their new studio, AMD also showed off their new RX Vega GPU which RED’s Jarred Land says shows that AMD is ready to kick some ass in visual effects.  The RX Vega will come in two different versions.  The smaller cut down 800Mhz, Vega 56, and the full size Vega 64 which will start clocking at 945Mhz.  That’s going to be a beast.

James DeRuvo:  Not to be left out though, NVIDIA showed off their new external graphics chassis.  Dubbed the eGPU, this new chassis will be able to work with both Titan GTX and Quadro 5000 series video cards for desktop level 3D performance in visual editing, visual effects, rendering and of course, video games.  Don’t think we didn’t notice that cheese grater Mac Pro design for the case either Larry.

Larry Jordan:  Interesting.  Well what other software news caught your eye?

James DeRuvo:  I have one more hardware thing.  This is what really grabbed my attention.  HP has a cool new backpack.  It’s a wireless virtual reality PC that you wear on your back.  It’s designed for industrial application, and weighs about ten pounds and is driven by Intel 7^th generation core i7 processors with NVIDIA Quadro GPUs.  16 gigabytes of GDDR RAM and it can double as a workstation thanks to a dock accessory.  Basically you wear this on your back, you plug in your favorite HTC Vive, or Oculus Rift virtual reality headset, and you’re in a virtual world.  It was designed for industrial design, so you could literally design a car in real flies rather than virtually.  Well, it’s virtually but it’s virtually but in big scale.  It got me thinking.  Imagine what we could do with that in Hollywood. You could have actors rehearsing in the virtual space of the set before it’s even built.  You can have directors working out camera angles in virtual space before the set is produced, and a production designer can literally design the set like he’s building it for real, wearing this thing.  It could be a potential game changer.  It looks really exciting.  Oh, and video gamers could probably play with it too.

Larry Jordan:  What’s the benefit of wearing it?  If you’re designing something, you’re using the mouse and a keyboard to create.  When you’re wearing it you’re just playing it back aren’t you?

James DeRuvo:  It’s total mobility.  It’s the tactile nature of using the virtual reality controls and being able to move and not be tied to your computer.  Especially with the Oculus, you currently have a choice of being wired to your computer to look at virtual reality, or you have to rely on a mobile device like the HTC Vive.  However, if you can wear it on your back, then you’re bringing your computer with you wherever you go in virtual space, and so you’re literally no longer chained to the desk.

Larry Jordan:  Interesting.  James, for people that want more information, where can they go to keep up with the latest news in our industry?

James DeRuvo:  All these stories and more can be found at Doddlenews.com.

Larry Jordan:  James DeRuvo is the senior writer for Doddlenews.com and James, thanks for joining us, we’ll chat with you again next week.

James DeRuvo:  Talk to you next week about Comic-Con I hope.

Larry Jordan:  That will be fun.  Talk to you soon.  Take care, bye bye.

James DeRuvo:  Bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  Here’s another website I want to introduce you to.  Doddlenews.com. DoddleNEWS gives you a portal into the broadcast, video and film industries.  It’s a leading online resource, presenting news, reviews and products for the film and video industry.  DoddleNEWS also offers a resource guide and crew management platforms specifically designed for production.  These digital call sheets, along with their app, directory and premium listings, provide in depth organizational tools for busy production professionals.  DoddleNEWS is a part of the Thalo Arts Community, a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers.  From photography to filmmaking, performing arts to fine arts, and everything in between, Thalo is filled with resources you need to succeed.  Whether you want the latest industry news, need to network with other creative professionals or require state of the art online tools to manage your next project, there’s only one place to go.  Doddlenews.com.

Larry Jordan:  Griffin Hammond is a documentary filmmaker in New York City known for producing do it yourself filmmaking tutorials for indie filmmakers, plus his award winning documentary, Sriracha.  He’s working for Bloomberg TV and MSNBC and is the brand ambassador for the brand new Panasonic GH5 camera.  But he’s also a podcaster, which is what we want to talk to him about today.  Hello Griffin, welcome.

Griffin Hammond:  Hello Larry, thanks for having me.

Larry Jordan:  It is always a pleasure having you on the show.  Griffin the last time you were on we were talking about filmmaking, but today however, we’re looking at ways that we can build our audience, and I want to focus on your podcasts.  What kind of podcasts are you creating?

Griffin Hammond:  My podcast is called ‘Hey Indie Filmmakers,’ and I do it with my childhood friend and tech genius, Nick Bodmer and we’re on episode 28 now.  We just talk about behind the scenes filmmaking, our stories, our experience.  And we answer a lot of listener questions.

Larry Jordan:  Why did you decide to start the podcast?

Griffin Hammond:  Mostly because I was getting so many emails and Tweets and Facebook messages with filmmaking questions and I felt like it was kind of a waste to answer these in a vacuum, to just one person when there’s probably a lot of people that could be benefitting from the answers.

Larry Jordan:  What are typical subjects?

Griffin Hammond:  We’ll talk about DSLR and mirrorless camera filmmaking, we’ll talk about lighting, audio and editing techniques.  I mean people have questions about every aspect of making a film.

Larry Jordan:  Is it more about the creative process of making a film?  Or is it more about the technical side of it?

Griffin Hammond:  We try to talk about all of it.  That’s the great thing about a podcast format, that we have time.  We spend about 45 minutes in each episode, so some of the episodes we’ve talked about storytelling techniques and I talk about Dan Harmon’s Story Circle that I use to craft a narrative.  And then sometimes we’re talking completely technical details.

Larry Jordan:  How often do you produce a show?

Griffin Hammond:  It’s once a week.  It comes out every Wednesday, so we started at the beginning of the year and we just published episode 28 this week.

Larry Jordan:  Is this something that you’re self-funding, do you have sponsors?  Do people subscribe?  Or is it at Sam Ervin used to say, an eleemosynary institution?

Griffin Hammond:  It is self funded mostly.  We do have sponsors for some episodes, but I mostly just thought this would be a good investment in my audience and just a way to give back and share what I’ve learned.

Larry Jordan:  Is it audio or video?

Griffin Hammond:  I started it with the idea that it would be mostly audio, although because my audience is primarily on YouTube, I thought I would film the first couple of episodes and we could kind of move some people from YouTube over to iTunes and other podcast platforms.  But it became pretty quickly apparent with my audience that they want to watch it.  They like watching me on YouTube.  They don’t really want to change that, so we’ve made it our routine to shoot all of them, so they’re all video and audio.

Larry Jordan:  You’ve mentioned your audience.  How did you attract an audience which is what I want to focus on?

Griffin Hammond:  Yes.  I mean, I think it starts with making content that’s useful and helpful to people.  I think that’s what’s been so great about YouTube as a platform for building an audience is that so many people turn to YouTube for answers to filmmaking questions.  They turn to you for editing techniques, and I mean you can learn everything about filmmaking online, especially on YouTube, so people are already looking for answers there, and I think when you provide useful information, when you share what you’ve learned, people gravitate towards that.

Larry Jordan:  I don’t believe that’s a true statement because I have put videos on YouTube and man they have disappeared without a trace and I’ve put other videos on YouTube and suddenly I’ve got 150,000 views in a week and a half.  So content is part of it, but I think we also have to focus on more than just simply posting stuff that we think the audience is interested in.  How do you attract an audience?  Or are you just throwing it out there and hoping somebody’s going to stumble over it?

Griffin Hammond:  You can’t just throw it out there and hope that strangers find it, you have to promote it.  And the best way, I think if you look at like Kevin Allocca works for Google, for YouTube trends, and he says that one of the biggest things that leads to a viral video, although my stuff’s not going viral, but the common denominator is something he calls pacemakers, which is the idea that you need someone bigger than you to talk about this thing.  So I think most of the videos that I’ve made that have done really well are because I made them for my 65,000 subscriber audience on YouTube, but some of those people may have bigger followings than me, and they may share it with their following.  But then, maybe it lands in nofilmschool.com or some other online publication.  You need someone with that audience to spread it.  That seems to be where much of my audiences come from.

Larry Jordan:  Do you do any advertising or actually spend money to support it?

Griffin Hammond:  I haven’t, and I’m told I probably should for the podcast.  The podcast can grow pretty effectively through advertising.  But I don’t know, I’m comfortable with the level of growth I’m at right now.

Larry Jordan:  You say you’re comfortable at the level of growth, are you growing, and if so, what’s your rate of growth?

Griffin Hammond:    For the podcast, I don’t think I’m growing rapidly.  Like I said, I have about 65,000 subscribers on YouTube, and the podcast episodes get anywhere between five and 10,000 views on YouTube, and then they’ll get another few thousand listens.  We’re tracking those metrics through Podtrac, but I think what’s interesting about the podcast versus tutorial videos is if I make a really tightly scripted three minute wonderful tutorial video, that has the potential to attract anywhere from 25,000 to 100,000 views on YouTube.  The podcast has a much smaller, weekly audience but it’s a much more intimate audience.  They’re listening for 45 minutes, and they’re getting to know me a lot better, so I think the numbers look smaller, but the engagement time is a lot bigger.  And I think that can be valuable for really connecting with the audience.

Larry Jordan:  Are you sponsoring this?  Are you having ads run?  And if so, are you picking the ads, or are you just taking the run of the mill that YouTube provides?

Griffin Hammond:   For YouTube, yes I’m just doing ads and letting YouTube run ads on it.  But we do have sponsors for some episodes, and so we’ll just work with sponsors to come up with a dollar amount for a 30 second pre roll or mid roll ads is what we’ve been doing.

Larry Jordan:  Do you do any marketing to social media?

Griffin Hammond:  My primary way of reaching audiences is through YouTube, that’s where most of my subscribers are.  And their subscription model works really well where people click subscribe and they’re notified every time I make a video, so that does the lion’s share of my work for me, but a lot of my audience is also on Instagram, and some people are on Twitter in my world, so I make sure I use those platforms as well.  I try to share things on Instagram every time I have a new video and tweet about it.  But I’m not sure that’s doing a lot.

Larry Jordan:  So you’re basically marketing it through word of mouth, and hoping that your 65,000 subscribers are telling friends to check it out?

Griffin Hammond:  Yes.  I think that is primarily how I’ve been noticed.  I think people have discovered me that way, and also I’ve been doing filmmaking workshops around the world this year, so I mention that.  I think anytime someone encounters me, maybe they saw a tutorial video I made a year ago, and they send me an email with a question and I’ll let them know that I have the podcast as well.  But I think what I’ve found in my career is that I put out a diverse set of work.  I make a lot of videos about a lot of different things.  Some of them are really tightly edited videos, some of them are these long form podcast videos, and they all have a return on investment.  They all come back with opportunities and audience later, so I think people may be discovering me through my back catalog of work and then they realize I’m doing this podcast.

Larry Jordan:  I have discovered that stuff on YouTube has a long tail.  People will watch stuff that was posted a long time ago.  Then they’ll ask questions about why I haven’t updated that video.

Griffin Hammond:  Right.

Larry Jordan:  What kind of gear are you using to produce the show?

Griffin Hammond:  Pretty simple stuff for the podcast.  I shoot everything that I do on a Panasonic GH5 mirrorless camera, and I also happen to be the brand ambassador for that camera, so I have a good relationship with Panasonic.  But I’m not even sure I need such a nice camera for the podcast.  I actually shoot that in 1080 for video, because it doesn’t need to be in 4K even though most of my projects are.  Then for most of my work, I use a Rode NTG3 shotgun microphone, and I’ll use that to record the podcast when I’m on the road.  When I’m at home, I’ll actually use a studio microphone and actually I keep a whole list of my gear on my website.

Larry Jordan:  So you’re posting this, you’re not streaming it?  It’s not a live presentation?  You’re shooting it, editing it and then posting the finished result correct?

Griffin Hammond:  Right, and a lot of people have questions about the software we’re using to do this, and it’s actually pretty simple.  I film myself in New York City, my co-host films himself in Las Vegas, he sends me the footage over the internet, and I just edit it together in Final Cut.  So we’re just using Apple Facetime audio to listen to each other while we do it.  We’re not using live streaming software or anything.

Larry Jordan:  Very cool.  Griffin, for people that want more information, where can they go on the web?

Griffin Hammond:  I have a website at griffinhammond.com where people can find my videos and they’ll find the podcast, it’s called ‘Hey Indie Filmmakers.’

Larry Jordan:  That’s all one word, griffinhammond.com.  Griffin Hammond is a filmmaker in New York City, and Griffin thanks for joining us today.

Griffin Hammond:  Thank you Larry.

Larry Jordan:  Take care, bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  Scott Page is a musician, technologist and serial entrepreneur.  He currently serves as the CEO of Ignited Network, a mobile broadcast network focused on content creators, and he’s widely toured as a professional musician.  Hello Scott, welcome back.

Scott Page:   Hi Larry, good to talk to you my friend.

Larry Jordan:  I am looking forward to it, because you have got more good ideas per spare minute than anybody I’ve ever met.  Let’s get ourselves started.  Today we’re looking at ways to build our audience.  You and your website Ignited Network, have been working on this whole idea of audience building for some time, so looking at it from a high level, how do we find our audience?

 Scott Page:  I think the most important thing today is most people think they can just throw something out there and everybody will show up.  But today with all the technology and the data analytics means you can actually go find your audience.  So the days of just throwing it out there are over, and it’s really knowing who the audience and the behaviors you’re looking for, and then being able to target them.  What’s great is, there’s a lot of technologies that allow for that.

Scott Page:  One of the most important things for anybody to really understand is where everybody thought social media and stuff was kind of a marketing engine, in reality it’s really your business today.  We’re moving from the traditional kind of media distributions to a operator owner direct to consumer model, and it’s finally really happening.  What people don’t realize is sitting in the palm of their hand is their broadcast network and their direct connect to their fans.

Larry Jordan:  It sounds like the whole concept of Field of Dreams, if you build it they will come, doesn’t work anymore?

Scott Page:  Really doesn’t.  I mean, it’s so hard to find and get yourself out there to rise above the noise.  Although I believe this is the greatest time in history for the independent artist, especially one that is really serious about building and growing their business and learning the new techniques, because you can build your audience.  I think we talked about this before, the whole idea of the thousand true fan model.  A true fan is somebody who’ll spend $100 a year on you.  If I have 1,000 of those people, there’s my first $100,000 in revenue.  So thinking in those terms, especially for the independent without all the middle men and everything in between, it actually can start being pretty lucrative.

Scott Page:  But it is really about finding and targeting that audience, and one of the things that’s really important for the audience to understand is, people do not buy products.  It’s really behaviors do.  So it’s learning how to identify and find those specific type of behaviors.  All this technology that allows us to go and find this particular audience.

Larry Jordan: Wait, last time I checked, I don’t have a single behavior on my customer list.  What do you mean behaviors buy products?

Scott Page:  Well, let’s face it.  Today we’re completely transparent whether we like it or not.  Certain people buy certain products, at specific times.  They follow specific kinds of people.  They do specific kinds of behavior.  So an example would be, I’m a big Twitter user.  I look for people that have specific kinds of behaviors.  Ones that retweet posts all the time.  Or they constantly will retweet and like a post three or four times.  At least that kind of thing.  So you start seeing the behaviors, how they operate.  The whole idea is really trying to look and find your super fan.

Scott Page:   Who are the super fans out there?  An example is, I’m out every day.  Right now I’m currently doing roughly 75 to 100 video replies where I’m replying back to people that have followed me, based upon a certain set of behaviors, when I look for specific things that they do.  If I put a post up, and I see those same people constantly retweeting and then going in and liking three or four of my posts, I know that those people are engaged at the right level.  So then I start to reach out to them, in order to start to build the relationship because today, let’s face it, the money’s in the relationship.  You build a relationship with the people that are specially interested in what you’re doing, then you can actually generate the revenue.

Larry Jordan:  So Scott what it sounds like you’re saying is that you’re using behaviors more than demographics or psychographics as the screening mechanism to find out who your most actively engaged customers are?

Scott Page:  Absolutely.

Larry Jordan:  What the behavior is is a flag for you so you can contact one on one with the individual that’s generating that behavior?

Scott Page:  Yes, absolutely.  That behavior, which is interesting, could be somebody that’s 17 years old or 75 years old.  It doesn’t really matter.  So it’s very interesting in that way of looking at it.  That actually came through our behavioral scientist that we use.  It’s actually very fascinating.

Larry Jordan:  A lot of us have to earn a living, which means that if we’re on Twitter all the time, and we’re focused on social networks all the time, it takes time away from the creative side of our company and the other business things we need to do.  How do we balance and is it all social media focused?

Scott Page:  Here’s the thing.  Sorry everybody, there’s no way around it, it’s work.  It’s a bunch of gigs.  Like I said, I get up every day and I start working at what I’m doing like the 75 to 100 replies back, and it’s mainly because I’m building an audience, getting ready to launch my network, so I’m starting to put my people and folks together that I think will really care.  The good news is, there are a lot of new things that are starting to happen in the sense of technology, of using automation.  Automation is something that can help you like crazy.

Scott Page:  Also chatbots, so we’re starting to move into this whole world of AI.  It doesn’t mean you’re putting robots on your messaging, but it really is a way of helping you manage your network.  Unfortunately, there’s really no way around it.  But what’s good is, once you start learning how this works, you actually start to train the algorithms out there that help you find and do your audience.  An example is in Twitter, Twitter has a whole set of algorithms and it’s looking for certain types of behaviors and once it finds those behaviors, it starts to promote your posts.  In other words, you have to go in and train the algorithms by doing certain specific tasks.  Once you do that, then the Twitter starts to really help you promote and find your audience and do specific things.  But in the beginning, it’s a lot of work, there’s no way around it, but there are architectures that allow you to do this and find your audience.

Larry Jordan:  Scott, I’m a filmmaker, I’m not an AI scientist.  What tools do I use and does it require an engineering degree from MIT to be able to use these things?

Scott Page:  Actually not.  Remember you have to go to school, there’s no way around this.  To really take advantage of the opportunity there, you have to go and you got to put the time in, just like making your film.  I work with a lot of music artists, and I say “Look, you’ve got to start making this whole idea, finding, reaching and marketing to your audience as much of the process as making the music and doing the stuff you’re doing, otherwise you’re going to get lost in the seas.”  There are varieties of tools.  There’s one that’s called IFTTT which is an ‘if then else’ kind of idea.  It will do processes for you that you can automate, like do specific tasks and find certain things and send notifications.  You can go to IFTTT.com and look into that.

Larry Jordan:  What was the name of that tool?  Go really slowly so we can hear the letters.

Scott Page:  It’s IFTTT.

Larry Jordan:  That website is IFTTT.com and Scott, what other tools are available?

Scott Page:  There’s all kinds of different tools we use in analytics.  Even using the tools inside Twitter to look at the Twitter analytics, but learning how to actually read those analytics, and understand how to do it.  One way for targeting an audience, and that’s really like knowing who your competitors are and go follow their followers, especially if you’re thinking about it on Twitter, and I really recommend Twitter as being one of the great business tools, especially for content creators.  They just don’t really understand it.  But the idea is you find your competitors, you go in, you follow 500 of their fans, wait two days, the ones that don’t follow you back, you delete, and then you keep doing that, so that way you can pick up 2-300 fans every couple of days.

Larry Jordan:  What are your other top tools that we should look at?

Scott Page:  We use varieties of tools for managing your networks, like Hootsuite, there’s Sprout Social is a great one.  That’s a paid one, they all actually have paid models.  Buffer is another great one for helping you deal with the audience.  Those are automation tools that you can basically use for that.  Then there’s some real advanced tools and stuff that are out there, but that I would not suggest getting into because it gets too deep and way expensive.  Those tools right there, for managing your network, and also using the automation, and then I would suggest that your audience starts reading up on chatbots because chatbots will allow you to communicate with your audience without you having to be there.  So there’s a variety of them on Facebook, there’s a whole series of chatbots that you can get and you can program those to basically help manage the conversation between you and the folks out there.

Larry Jordan:  Where does Ignited Network fit into this whole situation?

Scott Page:  Ignited is really a super fan network concept.  In other words, it’s a broadcast media network, but it also has the ways to manage your audiences find and target that specific audience.  So think of it like a combination between Facebook Live, Netflix, and a Reddit, which is the conversation.  So what we’ve done is we’ve built a platform that takes every piece of media and turns it into a conversation. It’s got a pay wall on the front of it, so you think of yourself like a cable network, cable channel.  When you launch your network, the interesting part is when you plug in all your social media, we run all the algorithms against your audience and find your super fans for you.  So we find those behaviors and we say, “These are the people you need to spend time with.”  Then you can invite them to your network, but they have to pay.  So our model is, it’s a subscription business.  I think we’re seeing more and more subscriptions coming on line now than ever if you look at the data.  We’re moving in that direction.  So it’s really a way for you to manage your network, upload your content, control your content.

Scott Page:  One of the unique features about our network is when you start a live video stream, you can stream across Twitter, Facebook and YouTube all at the same time.   So this allows you to funnel people.  An example would be, I can start a broadcast on a specific topic or a show or whatever, and I can start pumping it out over all the public networks, but then I can use that as a funnel and say “Hey, if you want to come to the after show, click here and come over,” and then they go through a workflow, get the application, and now they’re into your private network.  And those are the people that pay.  Because what we know is, really the money’s in the one to five percent of your total audience.  Roughly, when we’ve looked at the data, it’s around 60 to 70 percent of your money will come from five percent of your audience.  So it’s really identifying those audiences and targeting those folks and getting them in through the funnels, and bringing them in.  So Ignited is kind of a new broadcast network, it’s a mobile platform, and it’s created for content creators.  And actually film people, guys that make content, it’s a perfect type of network for them.

Larry Jordan: For people that want more information, where do they go on the web?

Scott Page:  Well we’ve been in public beta now, but you can go to ignited.live.

Larry Jordan:  That’s all one word, ignited.live, not .com, ignited.live.  Scott Page is the CEO

of Ignited Network, and Scott, thanks for joining us.

Scott Page:  Thank you very much Larry.

Larry Jordan:  I want to introduce you to a new website, Thalo.com.  Thalo is an artist community and networking site for creative people to connect, be inspired and showcase their creativity.  Thalo.com features content from around the world with a global perspective on all things creative.  Thalo is the place for creative folks to learn, collaborate, market and sell their works.  Thalo is a part of Thalo Arts, a worldwide community of artists, filmmakers and storytellers.  From photography to filmmaking, performing arts to fine arts, and everything in between, Thalo is filled with the resources you need to succeed.  Visit Thalo.com and discover how their community can help you connect, learn and succeed.  That’s Thalo.com.

Larry Jordan:  Maxim Jago is a film director, screen writer and author who splits his time between filmmaking and speaking as a futurist, especially at events celebrating creativity.  He’s also the chief innovation officer at filmdoo.com and a mentor for new filmmakers.  Hello Maxim, welcome.

Maxim Jago:  Hi Larry, how are you?

Larry Jordan:  I am talking to you and I’m going to have a great time.  This week we’re looking at ways to build an audience, and one of them is to adopt new technology.  And one of the newest trends is 360 VR.  What’s your take on this technology?

Maxim Jago:  Well you know, there’s a ton of buzz about it, and part of that buzz is being generated of course by the manufacturers, because they want you to buy their stuff.  But I think most of the buzz is legitimate.  It’s a really significant new medium that allows new ways to tell stories, that are engaging in a way that people I don’t think have experienced before.

Larry Jordan:  Well one of the challenges we have with 360 VR is it flies in the face of all traditional storytelling.  In storytelling generally, we are working really hard to have the audience see exactly what we want them to see, and not see what we don’t want them to see, and that’s the exact opposite.  360 VR is showing us everything all the time.  Can we use it for storytelling or is it much more for experiences?

Maxim Jago:  I think that’s a great temptation with this kind of technology, and if you look at some of the early iterations of content, it was all things like people skiing or jumping off things or stuff that you couldn’t safely do in person.  But you could do it in VR and 360 video.  But as the technology is maturing, and as our use of it is maturing, I think we’re beginning to discover that you can do genuine narrative based storytelling.  But the mechanism is a little bit different.  I would say that the manner in which you tell stories with 360 and VR is more like immersive theater than it’s like traditional 2D filmmaking, and if you think about the ways that you can control the perspective of the audience, their expectations, what they look at, what they observe, it really is much more like immersive theater where you’re using visual cues to attract their attention rather than just fixing their gaze.

Larry Jordan:  So it’s more like theater in the round than traditional filmmaking?

Maxim Jago:  Absolutely.  But more than just theater in the round.  There’s some fantastic companies like Secret Cinema in the UK, there was Sleep No More in New York, these are organizations where you, or in fact Escape Rooms which are a new phenomenon, these are experiences where things are happening all around you and what’s interesting is that both with 360 video and with true VR experiences you can have some interaction.  You can have different narratives emerge based on what you happen to look at.  Or you can have some basic interaction, a little bit like software where a little glowing dot will appear and if you focus your gaze on it, you choose another narrative.  Or for example, characters can behave in different ways.  So it’s not just a passive storytelling experience.  It’s actually something that you’re participating in.

Larry Jordan:  One of the other changes that we’ve seen recently is YouTube has modified this from 360 down to 180, simply to reflect that people look at where they’re staring straight ahead, and ignore that which is behind them.  Is this a new version of VR, or just simply an easier way to perceive it?

Maxim Jago:  Yes, it’s really interesting.  As we develop these technologies, we have to agree on the names of things, and there’s a friend of mine in London, Tanya Laird, she’s a real expert on this stuff.  She was saying that anything that involves you turning your head in different directions constitutes 360 video, even if it isn’t 360 degrees.  And what we’re discovering is, as you say, that people don’t often want to look behind themselves, but they do want that feeling of being able to turn their heads a little bit in different directions to focus on different aspects of the story.

Maxim Jago:  So we’re seeing platforms like YouTube supporting this, Vimeo of course has adopted it now.  We’re seeing different players for the content.  But the technology used to display the content can take one set of limitations, but also dramatically in terms of storytelling, we’re finding that actually nobody wants to look that way anyway, so let’s focus the story in front.  In fact, doing that solves a key production challenge, which is that if you do shoot full 360 video, you have to stitch together multiple video streams, and because of the way lenses work, because of the way light works, that means that you’re always going to have a stitching line of some kind, somewhere in the picture.  Which, depending on the media, could be visible, it’s certainly going to produce some post production problems.  But by shooting a limited range of vision, you can actually do this with a single lens and that opens up the use of a lot more cameras, and it makes post production much easier, gives you better image quality, and we’re finding that the audiences don’t really care.

Larry Jordan:  I find it interesting that the audience does not want to turn around and see what’s behind them.  I think that’s a very interesting comment.

Maxim Jago:  It’s a bit like one of those books, the novels where, when I was a kid, you get to the end of a paragraph and it says, “Do you want to open the door on the left, or the door on the right?”  And “Turn to this page, or turn to that page” and what you end up doing is putting your fingers and thumbs all through the pages so you can backtrack and see what happens.  Of course if you’ve got 360 video, and I’ve experienced this myself in some immersive experiences, there is this fear that somehow you’re going to miss something important, and you often do miss something good.  Partly because the filmmakers aren’t giving you the visual cues that you need to know where to look, and auditory cues as well.  So it’s a nascent storytelling technology.

Maxim Jago:   We’re still working out the rules, but generally our necks don’t work that way.  There are some interesting technologies that allow you to walk around the space.  If you look at the HTC Vive, we’re now hearing about obviously Oculus Rift and each of them having trackers, HP have just announced a backpack computing system that you need for more powerful systems, particularly things like Starbreeze’s StarVR headset which is very high resolution and provides an even more immersive experience and even wider vision.  But if you’re sitting down in a regular chair, it’s quite difficult to look exactly behind yourself.  And so in terms of narrative, in terms of storytelling, it may be unnecessary to provide that experience, which is not the same as a true VR experience, where you’re walking around an environment.  In that situation, you’re going to produce a full 360 experience anyway, it’s a different type of journey.

Larry Jordan:  Now that we’ve got ourselves figured out with 360 VR, how do we get an audience for it?

Maxim Jago:  This is the big challenge.  If you look at the development of any new technology, there’s a kind of push me, pull me between the size of the audience and the amount of media available, and the standards of the technology as it develops.  There is no easy solution to that.  We’re seeing now that there are millions of users with VR headsets, and because YouTube provided support for some form of 360 video, and we saw with things like Google Cardboard and Samsung Gear, that there are ways of using your smartphone to access the content, we saw a little bit of an explosion, a miniplosion, of potential audience, and I think that gave a lot of confidence to people working in distribution.  Now, recently, the Oculus Rift went down to $399, and we’re seeing the costs of this technology going down.  For me, the critical threshold is when a technology hits about $300.  When that happens, it becomes a truly consumer product and you’ll see a bigger uptake.

Maxim Jago:  Obviously we’ve got the PlayStation VR and we’ve got the HoloLens from Microsoft.  All these technologies are coming along and it could seem like the competing technologies would be incompatible with one another, but thankfully the standards for the media are pretty much universal.  So as long as somebody has some kind of headset, you can produce content for them, and we’re seeing all of the major media companies investing heavily in producing content, and that creates that eco system of content and demand for the content.  The short answer is, right now the audience is relatively small, but I think you’re going to see over time a continual ramp up.  Not all kinds of content is right for VR, and not all kinds of content will be right for flat screens, and so this is a new medium, it’s not really a direct competition for the beauty of good cinematography.

Larry Jordan:  It seems to me that short term, the next few months at least, the most viable projects are one where you’re producing it for a client who has a built in audience, as opposed to just creating raw content and throwing it out there and trying to get people to attend, because so few people have the gear necessary to view it.  Is that a true statement, or am I looking at it too narrowly?

Maxim Jago:  No I think you’re absolutely in the right direction.  Some of the most powerful experiences are those where it’s a dedicated set up.  The perfect example is that first foray into VR by IMAX.  I visited the one in Los Angeles recently, and they’ve got a number of different booths where you have a number of different experiences.  For me, the most interesting was again the StarVR headset.  It requires really powerful computing, but it gives you this very high resolution screen that I would say is the next generation VR headset, and so it’s worth going to IMAX for that experience.  We’re seeing James Cameron talking about developing experiences, Spielberg is, they’re all talking about these things where you go to a place to have an experience.  Sort of like a halfway house between going to a theme park and going to the cinema and I definitely see demand for that.  But at the same time, people are used to accessing content on any screen these days.

Maxim Jago:   We’ve just heard from RED that they’re about to release a holographic smartphone of some kind.  Nobody is talking about the screen, they haven’t shown it to anybody, but if RED’s history is anything to go by, it’s going to be phenomenal.  And I think we’ll begin to see greater and greater demand, again, as the screens become more available.  If you look way back at the take up for HD, a big tipping point for that was the PlayStation.  I think it was the PlayStation 3 supporting HD drove demand for HDTVs and then with the HDTVs in place, people started demanding more and more content.  I think that we will see more and more of this happening with 360 video, but of course the cost is so high for you to produce true VR content, it’s possible that that will continue to be more specialist.  I would say we’ll be more specialist in the direction that gaming is at home.  There’s a lot more gamers than people might imagine, and as the technology becomes more accessible, the experiences become more engaging, we see stronger and stronger demand.

Maxim Jago:  I’ve had some phenomenal experiences just with an HTC 5 headset in a small space where you can walk around, just in something the size of a kitchen, and these are experiences that you can have at home for relatively low cost.  So it’s a slow burn right now, but as the cost comes down, I think you’ll see it speed up.

Larry Jordan:  Some very interesting uses of brand new technology, and new ways to discover audiences for filmmakers.  Maxim, for people that want to keep track of who you are and what you’re doing, and what you’re working on, where can they go on the web?

Maxim Jago:  Well, thanks for asking, the easiest place is my website, maximjago.com.  If you Google me, Maxim Jago, a bunch of stuff will come up, but the website’s probably the best bet.

Larry Jordan:  That’s maximjago.com all one word.  Maxim, thanks for joining us today.  I look forward to talking to you soon.

Maxim Jago:  Thank you so much for having me.

Larry Jordan:  Take care.

Maxim Jago:  Take care, cheers.

Larry Jordan:  Bye bye.

Larry Jordan:  It is fascinating all the different areas that we have to create stories, whether it’s from VR or podcasts, traditional filmmaking or music and the key is to find an audience, and we’ve had some really good ideas today.  I want to thank our guests Griffin Hammond, the filmmaker, and Scott Page, musician and entrepreneur, Maxim Jago, the filmmaker, and James DeRuvo, senior writer for DoddleNEWS.  It’s fascinating listening to the diversity of options that we have in our industry which is really cool.  We’ll come back and visit this again because there’s no reason to have all these wonderful storytelling tools if we don’t attract an audience to take a look at the stories we create, so this is something we’ll be following more on in the future.

Larry Jordan:   There’s a lot of history in our industry and it’s all posted to our website, at digitalproductionbuzz.com. Here you’ll find thousands of interviews, all online and all available to you today.  Remember to sign up for our free weekly show newsletter that comes out every Saturday.

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Larry Jordan:   Our producer is Debbie Price, my name is Larry Jordan, and thanks for listening to The Digital Production Buzz.

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